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> We can't tell if Jacob is truly a "douche" or not. He had a girlfriend for five years and didn't marry her, and then had a girlfriend for two years and didn'

> We can't tell if Jacob is truly a "douche" or not. He had a girlfriend for five years and didn't marry her, and then had a girlfriend for two years and didn't marry her. That doesn't mean he's a douche, but he's not much of a prize either. I suppose this attitude is a generation or more out of date. But it sure looks to me like the younger generation is screwing it up bad. Guess I'd better get some signs to post on my lawn.

evincarofautumn 14y ago
Counterexample: my girlfriend and I have been together for about two years, love each other deeply, and are strongly committed to one another. And still, for us, marriage is basically a political and financial decision. So if she can get a free ride at some school where I can get a professorship, or if one of our jobs transfers us overseas, or if we can get a significant break on our taxes by filing jointly, then we’ll do it. Gaming the system is awesome. Otherwise, marriage just doesn’t mean anything to us.
- abrowne 14y ago
  This is exactly how my partner and I feel. I was able to get a Canadian work permit as her common-law spouse, so we didn't need to get married when she did grad school in Canada. (We're from the US.) Until there's some other reason to get married, we have little interest in doing so. [edit: added closing parenthesis]
NickPollard 14y ago
What's wrong with having a girlfriend for five years and not marrying her? It might be unusual, but it's not wrong. Some people aren't into marriage. Some people like to wait - my brother was in a relationship over 10 years before he proposed (and is now happily married). Don't judge everyone by your own ideas.
- rayiner 14y ago
  I know some people like that. But to be honest, I know a lot more couples where the guy just kicks the can down the road, paralyzed at the thought of sleeping with the same woman forever. Which is fine, except when they deflect instead of being forthright about their feelings and letting the woman decide whether to keep going.
  - Tichy 14y ago
    Isn't it statistically most often the woman who breaks up? I suspect that might be because it is easier for women to find new partners.
- dkersten 14y ago
  Similarly, I see a lot of people who were together for 2 to 3 years, got married and then another few years down the line got divorced again. 2 to 5 years really isn't that long a time when you think about it.
danso 14y ago
Putting aside the idea of whether marriage should happen after N years of dating...to my point, we still don't know enough to make any judgment on "Jacob" because we only have glimpses of the women he is said to have dated. Relationships are two-way streets and the man is not the sole arbitrer of tying the knot. And I'm old enough to be starting to harangue the next generation for not things the way I remembered doing them...but I think you're a bit too judgmental. One of the underlying themes of this piece is that Internet dating makes the "market," so to speak, much more liquid. The people whom you know who got married after 2-5 years...can you, or they, say that who they matched up with and vowed "till death do we part" was conclusively the best person for them in existence? Isn't it slightly coincidental and solipsistic to think that the universe arranged things so that out of billions of human beings, these couples who met mostly in real life (before the spread of e-dating) happened to have the physical proximity needed for their paths to intersect? Whether or not marriage is the ideal state is a whole different argument...but you have to take into account the different worldview that the Internet unavoidably propagates. I think this is why I'm defending the OP (even though I've never online dated)...it's almost not necessary to provide hard evidence for the OP's assertion (or the admittedly self-interested online dating professionals quoted) because the Internet has so fundamentally changed how we interact and what we believe in. Right now, it is strange to me when friends don't have the intent to eventually marry...but I grew up with that being the status quo. The generation entering adulthood now did not and so it seems impossible to think that e-dating had (or will have) no impact on how we perceive and carry out relationships.
- mattchew 14y ago
  > Relationships are two-way streets and the man is not the sole arbitrer of tying the knot. This is true, but from what I've seen in these multiyear LTRs, the woman wants to get married, the man wants to keep his options open (or, "doesn't want to make a mistake"). I've never seen the reverse scenario in an extended relationship. If Jacob's girlfriends didn't actually care about getting married and settling down, then I agree there's nothing to fault Jacob for particularly. My guess is that a woman who sticks with a guy five years typically wants to get married, but you're right that I don't know, and we may be back to me not understanding the younger generation. > The people whom you know who got married after 2-5 years...can you, or they, say that who they matched up with and vowed "till death do we part" was conclusively the best person for them in existence? Of course not, but what kind of wacky standard is that anyway? That's an idea for teenage girls who haven't gotten over their Disney Princess movies, not mature adults. > Right now, it is strange to me when friends don't have the intent to eventually marry...but I grew up with that being the status quo. The generation entering adulthood now did not and so it seems impossible to think that e-dating had (or will have) no impact on how we perceive and carry out relationships. Oh, the new generation will muddle through somehow, I'm sure of that. But from what I've seen, I am skeptical that these ever cooler, ever more casual notions of romance and partnership are actually improvements for the people practicing them.
crazygringo 14y ago
> He had a girlfriend for five years and didn't marry her, and then had a girlfriend for two years and didn't marry her. That doesn't mean he's a douche, but he's not much of a prize either. You know... sometimes after five years, relationships just don't work out. Sometimes they weren't working out after two years, but inertia kept them going for another three. Putting aside this specific character "Jacob", people change over two or five years. Sometimes, a lot. A man isn't letting down an obligation if the relationship ends. Indeed, whoever has the courage to end a two- or five-year relationship that isn't working, should probably be praised for allowing both people to move on with their lives and find better people. The only thing worse than a five-year relationship ending, is being trapped in a resulting unhappy 20-year marriage with the same person.
wzdd 14y ago
As someone who recently came out of a long-term relationship where there was no desire on either party's part to get married, I can confirm that, yes, this attitude is a generation out of date. And somewhat offensive.
deleted 14y ago
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Tichy 14y ago
I can't even parse your statement. What is bad about not marrying a girl-friend? Because the women supposedly helplessly clung to their only hope of salvation in life, being married by some guy? I don't think that is the case in modern society anymore.

evincarofautumn 14y ago

Counterexample: my girlfriend and I have been together for about two years, love each other deeply, and are strongly committed to one another. And still, for us, marriage is basically a political and financial decision. So if she can get a free ride at some school where I can get a professorship, or if one of our jobs transfers us overseas, or if we can get a significant break on our taxes by filing jointly, then we’ll do it. Gaming the system is awesome. Otherwise, marriage just doesn’t mean anything to us.

abrowne 14y ago
This is exactly how my partner and I feel. I was able to get a Canadian work permit as her common-law spouse, so we didn't need to get married when she did grad school in Canada. (We're from the US.) Until there's some other reason to get married, we have little interest in doing so. [edit: added closing parenthesis]

NickPollard 14y ago

What's wrong with having a girlfriend for five years and not marrying her? It might be unusual, but it's not wrong. Some people aren't into marriage. Some people like to wait - my brother was in a relationship over 10 years before he proposed (and is now happily married). Don't judge everyone by your own ideas.

rayiner 14y ago
I know some people like that. But to be honest, I know a lot more couples where the guy just kicks the can down the road, paralyzed at the thought of sleeping with the same woman forever. Which is fine, except when they deflect instead of being forthright about their feelings and letting the woman decide whether to keep going.
- Tichy 14y ago
  Isn't it statistically most often the woman who breaks up? I suspect that might be because it is easier for women to find new partners.
dkersten 14y ago
Similarly, I see a lot of people who were together for 2 to 3 years, got married and then another few years down the line got divorced again. 2 to 5 years really isn't that long a time when you think about it.

danso 14y ago

Putting aside the idea of whether marriage should happen after N years of dating...to my point, we still don't know enough to make any judgment on "Jacob" because we only have glimpses of the women he is said to have dated. Relationships are two-way streets and the man is not the sole arbitrer of tying the knot. And I'm old enough to be starting to harangue the next generation for not things the way I remembered doing them...but I think you're a bit too judgmental. One of the underlying themes of this piece is that Internet dating makes the "market," so to speak, much more liquid. The people whom you know who got married after 2-5 years...can you, or they, say that who they matched up with and vowed "till death do we part" was conclusively the best person for them in existence? Isn't it slightly coincidental and solipsistic to think that the universe arranged things so that out of billions of human beings, these couples who met mostly in real life (before the spread of e-dating) happened to have the physical proximity needed for their paths to intersect? Whether or not marriage is the ideal state is a whole different argument...but you have to take into account the different worldview that the Internet unavoidably propagates. I think this is why I'm defending the OP (even though I've never online dated)...it's almost not necessary to provide hard evidence for the OP's assertion (or the admittedly self-interested online dating professionals quoted) because the Internet has so fundamentally changed how we interact and what we believe in. Right now, it is strange to me when friends don't have the intent to eventually marry...but I grew up with that being the status quo. The generation entering adulthood now did not and so it seems impossible to think that e-dating had (or will have) no impact on how we perceive and carry out relationships.

mattchew 14y ago
> Relationships are two-way streets and the man is not the sole arbitrer of tying the knot. This is true, but from what I've seen in these multiyear LTRs, the woman wants to get married, the man wants to keep his options open (or, "doesn't want to make a mistake"). I've never seen the reverse scenario in an extended relationship. If Jacob's girlfriends didn't actually care about getting married and settling down, then I agree there's nothing to fault Jacob for particularly. My guess is that a woman who sticks with a guy five years typically wants to get married, but you're right that I don't know, and we may be back to me not understanding the younger generation. > The people whom you know who got married after 2-5 years...can you, or they, say that who they matched up with and vowed "till death do we part" was conclusively the best person for them in existence? Of course not, but what kind of wacky standard is that anyway? That's an idea for teenage girls who haven't gotten over their Disney Princess movies, not mature adults. > Right now, it is strange to me when friends don't have the intent to eventually marry...but I grew up with that being the status quo. The generation entering adulthood now did not and so it seems impossible to think that e-dating had (or will have) no impact on how we perceive and carry out relationships. Oh, the new generation will muddle through somehow, I'm sure of that. But from what I've seen, I am skeptical that these ever cooler, ever more casual notions of romance and partnership are actually improvements for the people practicing them.

crazygringo 14y ago

> He had a girlfriend for five years and didn't marry her, and then had a girlfriend for two years and didn't marry her. That doesn't mean he's a douche, but he's not much of a prize either. You know... sometimes after five years, relationships just don't work out. Sometimes they weren't working out after two years, but inertia kept them going for another three. Putting aside this specific character "Jacob", people change over two or five years. Sometimes, a lot. A man isn't letting down an obligation if the relationship ends. Indeed, whoever has the courage to end a two- or five-year relationship that isn't working, should probably be praised for allowing both people to move on with their lives and find better people. The only thing worse than a five-year relationship ending, is being trapped in a resulting unhappy 20-year marriage with the same person.

wzdd 14y ago

As someone who recently came out of a long-term relationship where there was no desire on either party's part to get married, I can confirm that, yes, this attitude is a generation out of date. And somewhat offensive.

deleted 14y ago

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Tichy 14y ago

I can't even parse your statement. What is bad about not marrying a girl-friend? Because the women supposedly helplessly clung to their only hope of salvation in life, being married by some guy? I don't think that is the case in modern society anymore.