6 ms·

You're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. You believe you lack pre-requisites women require. Truth is, there are loads of short guys, ugly guys or otherwise

by toumhi 14y ago

You're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. You believe you lack pre-requisites women require. Truth is, there are loads of short guys, ugly guys or otherwise challenged guys that get what they want out of dating, whether it's lots of random sleeping around, or a committed relationship, and everything in between. Please don't talk about giving up on relationships. Online dating might actually not be the best choice for you. It creates the illusion of control and comfort from your living room. As you saw, it's tough work and you don't really learn much from it, not as much as you could learn if you spent the same amount of time outside meeting women. Try to meet women in your day-to-day activities. Join classes. Get active. Go to bars and parties. I don't know where you're coming from, but if you're shy and lack confidence, make a point to talk to other people, and that includes attractive women. Also, you need to have a mindset of abundance, not of scarcity. There are plenty of women that'd like to be with you, if you go out to meet them and show them your true self and get your act together. You'll get vastly better over time. But it does take time, so don't give up after 1 week :-)

mykosmos 14y ago
Great post. Being a short yet confident man is way much more appealing to a woman than to be the 6' average joe.
- singular 14y ago
  Citation required? Women might say this, but in my experience it's simply not true. Like the whole 'love yourself so others can love you' line. Which is just B.S. in my experience. Having said that, I agree confidence makes a huge difference. However, the kind of confidence women like is in my opinion an unpleasant cocky kind. And should I attempt to completely change who I am, become somebody I dislike just to fulfil that? Would that lead to a relationship that would work? I don't even think it's feasible to be honest.
  - asdfologist 14y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Strauss http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Strauss
  - mykosmos 14y ago
    If you're sure that women will not like you on a sexual way, they won't. As sure as if you don't belive your startup to succeed, it won't. You've made a bad image of yourself that think he can't attract women and you find lame excuses in order to not try to change. Because trying to change and to be a better version of yourself is admitting that until now you were wrong and it is exposing yourself to failure. Do you realy think that your true self is the one that believe he can't atract woman ? If true, that's fine, but I don't think it's really your true self.
    - singular 14y ago
      Sure, and the fact that many, MANY people have experienced this height-bias, and women openly admit to preferring it is entirely my imagination. I think this 'think positively and it will be' stuff is more than a little wishful thinking. It reminds me of the 'love yourself and then they will love you' bullshit. I know somebody who has a great job, is good looking and tall, but utterly depressed so clearly doesn't love himself, yet he constantly pulls a stream of model-quality beautiful women. Shall we neglect that case? I am happy to admit I'm wrong. But are you? I especially recommend this video:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LwRe6tyqY8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LwRe6tyqY8 Don't tell me, they were finding excuses not to change into the better version of themselves? Give me a break.
      - potatolicious 14y ago
        Nobody has denied the height bias. We all admit it exists. The difference is that we treat it as a handicap, and not even a particularly game-ending one. You're the one falling upon absolutes. In reality being short is like having 9 fingers. You will never out-type a 10-fingered person, but you can type plenty fast.
        singular 14y ago
        I read the grandparent as suggesting that it was attitude rather than a real factor. I suggest that he was denying the bias, or at least the severity of it. My experience has been that it's a huge factor. What frustrates me about this kind of response is that I have worked very hard, lost > 55lb in weight, asked women out in real life, ~150 online, etc. with a positive attitude and got nothing in return, and yet suggestions like that suggest it's all my fault and I'm simply afraid of admitting failure. I wish I could believe there were things I could do to overcome this, but I don't. I have friends who are short yet a little bit taller than me who are perfectly positive yet experience exactly the same thing. It doesn't bode well - at what point do you think 'this handicap is just too much'? I work for a startup by the way, so this is not an attitude I take to everything in life :-) however, if all evidence points one way, wouldn't it be mad to somehow have faith that the fact isn't so?
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- deleted 14y ago
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singular 14y ago
No, I'm not. Anybody who's tried in real life as well as online, knows what an impact these factors have, especially height, irritatingly given its arbitrariness in western society. I spent months trying online, have tried in real life, parties, bars, you name it for years. I am actually pretty good socially. Believe me, this is not for want of trying. I am not willing to join random clubs to try to meet women, as my prior probability is so low, based on previous experience, that it seems an enormous effort for a tiny probability of success. What this comes down to is the 'spark' of attraction - women's genetic design means it incorporates certain factors, including those listed above, so if they like you + you don't fulfil the prerequisites you'll end up being their friend, they just 'won't see you that way', etc.
- rokhayakebe 14y ago
  Allow me to tell you how wrong you are. My roomate is 6'4, broad shoulders, athletic, good looking by any standard, and he is hella funny. People thought for the longest he had plenty girls, but believe me when I say he had his fair share of trouble. Now, this will sound like a lie, but I have no way to prove this to you unless you decide to make a trip to the city of Atlanta at which point I will introduce you to my other friend. This guy is 5'5 (at the most), skinny, and by no means will you call him handsome. However from my 12 years in America, I have never met anyone who gets hotter girls, or more girls. I always ask him, and I mean always, "What do you do, really?" From my observation and what he tells me here is what works for him,1) talk to as many beautiful girls as you can (interestingly enough, you have more chance with beautiful women, I have no idea why), 2) don't be nice, 3) smell very very good (One Million or Chanel5 or Chrome Azzaro,...), 4) always dress one step above, always (my friend always looks preppy), 5) never depreciate yourself, never, ever, even as a joke, never.
  - ok_craig 14y ago
    Ugh, that guy sounds gross. I'm sure he's cool in person but if one were to simply follow this strict list of items they could very easily end up turning themselves into a douche bag. Do we have to become someone we hate to attract people we like? More likely than not there is an element that trumps the others which your friend fails to mention: personally/charisma. Someone who has it just thinks they are "talking" and may not realize the power they have, so they won't mention it in the magic lists. But it seems to be what matters most and is by far the most difficult aspect of oneself to develop, if one doesn't already have a "good" personality naturally.
colmvp 14y ago
I see where you are coming from but there's only so much confidence/boldness can make up for physical attributes. You say there are loads of short/ugly/challenged guys who get what they want and yet, what I see on my Facebook/streets of SF/NY are totally different. I've only seen a handful of shorter guys get taller women. Most women prefer taller guys and guys of certain races (interracial stats and surveys definitely show Caucasian guys have a significant advantage over say Asian guys). It's nice to say you can make up for shortcomings but the reality is that it's extremely rare to meet a woman who looks past certain physical attributes that are glamorized in culture.
- singular 14y ago
  I think it's a matter of prerequisites. Women will look at you as a friend instead of a potential partner if you don't fit them. That's when all the nice-guy stuff of kindness, etc. that many women claim to be what they're looking for (and they are being truthful, only missing a rather vital predicate) is unimportant if you can't fulfil the pre-reqs. My experience on the street is exactly the same. I've basically never seen contradictions, after years living in London, a city of 7M people. I think people wish these things to be true. But they're not.
  - colmvp 14y ago
    That being said, a small percentage of guys I know have occasionally bucked the trend. One guy is crazy fun, short (5'5 - 5'6), Asian, and yet hasn't had trouble attracting women in NYC (arguably one of the harder places to find someone due to the number of good looking and stylish people). Another guy I know had the exact same traits (except maybe one inch taller) and attracted extremely beautiful taller women. In his case though, he's never attracted to Caucasian women so even though he could've bucked the trend he chose not to. I believe they had two advantages: one is a extroverted fun personality that makes women comfortable with approaching them, and the second is going out often as to have an incredibly large social circle to choose from.
  - aswanson 14y ago
    London, wow. I always pictured the UK and European females as being more cultured/advanced when it came to dealing with men than their American counterparts. Is there the same typical meathead/jock worship in high school as well over there by females?

by toumhi 14y ago

mykosmos 14y ago

Great post. Being a short yet confident man is way much more appealing to a woman than to be the 6' average joe.

singular 14y ago
Citation required? Women might say this, but in my experience it's simply not true. Like the whole 'love yourself so others can love you' line. Which is just B.S. in my experience. Having said that, I agree confidence makes a huge difference. However, the kind of confidence women like is in my opinion an unpleasant cocky kind. And should I attempt to completely change who I am, become somebody I dislike just to fulfil that? Would that lead to a relationship that would work? I don't even think it's feasible to be honest.
- asdfologist 14y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Strauss http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Strauss
- mykosmos 14y ago
  If you're sure that women will not like you on a sexual way, they won't. As sure as if you don't belive your startup to succeed, it won't. You've made a bad image of yourself that think he can't attract women and you find lame excuses in order to not try to change. Because trying to change and to be a better version of yourself is admitting that until now you were wrong and it is exposing yourself to failure. Do you realy think that your true self is the one that believe he can't atract woman ? If true, that's fine, but I don't think it's really your true self.
  - singular 14y ago
    Sure, and the fact that many, MANY people have experienced this height-bias, and women openly admit to preferring it is entirely my imagination. I think this 'think positively and it will be' stuff is more than a little wishful thinking. It reminds me of the 'love yourself and then they will love you' bullshit. I know somebody who has a great job, is good looking and tall, but utterly depressed so clearly doesn't love himself, yet he constantly pulls a stream of model-quality beautiful women. Shall we neglect that case? I am happy to admit I'm wrong. But are you? I especially recommend this video:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LwRe6tyqY8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LwRe6tyqY8 Don't tell me, they were finding excuses not to change into the better version of themselves? Give me a break.
    - potatolicious 14y ago
      Nobody has denied the height bias. We all admit it exists. The difference is that we treat it as a handicap, and not even a particularly game-ending one. You're the one falling upon absolutes. In reality being short is like having 9 fingers. You will never out-type a 10-fingered person, but you can type plenty fast.
      - singular 14y ago
        I read the grandparent as suggesting that it was attitude rather than a real factor. I suggest that he was denying the bias, or at least the severity of it. My experience has been that it's a huge factor. What frustrates me about this kind of response is that I have worked very hard, lost > 55lb in weight, asked women out in real life, ~150 online, etc. with a positive attitude and got nothing in return, and yet suggestions like that suggest it's all my fault and I'm simply afraid of admitting failure. I wish I could believe there were things I could do to overcome this, but I don't. I have friends who are short yet a little bit taller than me who are perfectly positive yet experience exactly the same thing. It doesn't bode well - at what point do you think 'this handicap is just too much'? I work for a startup by the way, so this is not an attitude I take to everything in life :-) however, if all evidence points one way, wouldn't it be mad to somehow have faith that the fact isn't so?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

singular 14y ago

No, I'm not. Anybody who's tried in real life as well as online, knows what an impact these factors have, especially height, irritatingly given its arbitrariness in western society. I spent months trying online, have tried in real life, parties, bars, you name it for years. I am actually pretty good socially. Believe me, this is not for want of trying. I am not willing to join random clubs to try to meet women, as my prior probability is so low, based on previous experience, that it seems an enormous effort for a tiny probability of success. What this comes down to is the 'spark' of attraction - women's genetic design means it incorporates certain factors, including those listed above, so if they like you + you don't fulfil the prerequisites you'll end up being their friend, they just 'won't see you that way', etc.

rokhayakebe 14y ago
Allow me to tell you how wrong you are. My roomate is 6'4, broad shoulders, athletic, good looking by any standard, and he is hella funny. People thought for the longest he had plenty girls, but believe me when I say he had his fair share of trouble. Now, this will sound like a lie, but I have no way to prove this to you unless you decide to make a trip to the city of Atlanta at which point I will introduce you to my other friend. This guy is 5'5 (at the most), skinny, and by no means will you call him handsome. However from my 12 years in America, I have never met anyone who gets hotter girls, or more girls. I always ask him, and I mean always, "What do you do, really?" From my observation and what he tells me here is what works for him,1) talk to as many beautiful girls as you can (interestingly enough, you have more chance with beautiful women, I have no idea why), 2) don't be nice, 3) smell very very good (One Million or Chanel5 or Chrome Azzaro,...), 4) always dress one step above, always (my friend always looks preppy), 5) never depreciate yourself, never, ever, even as a joke, never.
- ok_craig 14y ago
  Ugh, that guy sounds gross. I'm sure he's cool in person but if one were to simply follow this strict list of items they could very easily end up turning themselves into a douche bag. Do we have to become someone we hate to attract people we like? More likely than not there is an element that trumps the others which your friend fails to mention: personally/charisma. Someone who has it just thinks they are "talking" and may not realize the power they have, so they won't mention it in the magic lists. But it seems to be what matters most and is by far the most difficult aspect of oneself to develop, if one doesn't already have a "good" personality naturally.

colmvp 14y ago

I see where you are coming from but there's only so much confidence/boldness can make up for physical attributes. You say there are loads of short/ugly/challenged guys who get what they want and yet, what I see on my Facebook/streets of SF/NY are totally different. I've only seen a handful of shorter guys get taller women. Most women prefer taller guys and guys of certain races (interracial stats and surveys definitely show Caucasian guys have a significant advantage over say Asian guys). It's nice to say you can make up for shortcomings but the reality is that it's extremely rare to meet a woman who looks past certain physical attributes that are glamorized in culture.

singular 14y ago
I think it's a matter of prerequisites. Women will look at you as a friend instead of a potential partner if you don't fit them. That's when all the nice-guy stuff of kindness, etc. that many women claim to be what they're looking for (and they are being truthful, only missing a rather vital predicate) is unimportant if you can't fulfil the pre-reqs. My experience on the street is exactly the same. I've basically never seen contradictions, after years living in London, a city of 7M people. I think people wish these things to be true. But they're not.
- colmvp 14y ago
  That being said, a small percentage of guys I know have occasionally bucked the trend. One guy is crazy fun, short (5'5 - 5'6), Asian, and yet hasn't had trouble attracting women in NYC (arguably one of the harder places to find someone due to the number of good looking and stylish people). Another guy I know had the exact same traits (except maybe one inch taller) and attracted extremely beautiful taller women. In his case though, he's never attracted to Caucasian women so even though he could've bucked the trend he chose not to. I believe they had two advantages: one is a extroverted fun personality that makes women comfortable with approaching them, and the second is going out often as to have an incredibly large social circle to choose from.
- aswanson 14y ago
  London, wow. I always pictured the UK and European females as being more cultured/advanced when it came to dealing with men than their American counterparts. Is there the same typical meathead/jock worship in high school as well over there by females?