4 ms·

Have tried many, paid/non-paid, with same outcome. And shorter women hilariously still generally prefer >= av. height men. It seems to be a major genetic thing.

Have tried many, paid/non-paid, with same outcome. And shorter women hilariously still generally prefer >= av. height men. It seems to be a major genetic thing. I shouldn't gonzo myself into this too much, as I've decided to give up on relationships altogether, so this isn't about me finding some site that'll work (not feasible IMHO, since real life is equally impossible), but rather whether people like me are being baited-and-switched much by these sites...

Retric 14y ago
That's true in both online and offline dating. My suggestion if you want a far easier time hooking up is to simply get into very good shape. Height, weight, completion, and dress are all vary important in first impressions. But surprisingly weight / fitness is by far the most important.
- singular 14y ago
  I would be more than willing to do that, if I believed it was as much of a factor as height/looks/cocky confidence. I actually experimented with this, lost > 55lb in weight, worked really hard, and it made no difference. None. As you can imagine, motivation to do these things is not great these days.
  - Retric 14y ago
    If losing that much weight made no difference your either still significantly over weight, gained no mussel mass, aiming rather high, or something else is wrong. My honest suggestion is to remove you expectations. Spend a month responding to every profile until you start getting responses you don't have to keep going after that but you need a little signal to start. Then do some A/B testing to see what helps vs. hurts your response rate. PS: Think of your profile like a resume you get ~5 seconds to catch someones interest.
    - singular 14y ago
      I looked a lot better, but there was definitely still flab. You exclude the possibility that other factors outweighed (no pun intended) the weight issue? We're talking > 55lb, so it obviously had a major visual impact. I don't believe it should have had no impact. Maybe minor, but for it to make no difference says something about other factors I think. when I was young I wasn't overweight at all, and had exactly the same experience. I agree that the profile is like that. You have very little time to catch somebody's attention.
      - rjh29 14y ago
        Do not underestimate the confidence and well-being you can get from getting into shape. And it doesn't take a long time - perhaps 2 or 3 hours a week at the gym or at home, exercising and eating right. That alone can distinguish you from a lot of other people who are either unfit, or fit but lacking your other qualities (I am assuming: intelligence, a good job, etc....) Getting yourself into shape is sort of like a magic bullet. To do it you either need to be, or will become: driven, motivated, strong-willed and with the capacity to see things through to the end. The improvement acts as a positive feedback loop. I can't recommend it enough.
jules 14y ago
Remember that dating works much like a market. There is supply and demand, and since there are about as many men as women, the supply and demand is roughly equal. But in some places this ratio is not equal. I'm not sure about dating sites, but that could be such a place. Simplifying a lot: if there are 1000 women and 2000 men then the women will date the 1000 most attractive men, and the rest have basically no chance. You need to find a place where the numbers are reversed. The good thing about dating being a market is that you can find somebody. The thing is that you have to place your standards around your level of attractiveness or lower. Contrary to the popular romantic image of a non attractive male dating a very attractive female, almost all relationships happen between people of very similar attractiveness. You may be less popular height wise, so you might need to compromise on an attribute that makes a woman less popular (e.g. weight or age). Perhaps you have decided that the compromises you would have to make are too great, and you'll rather stay single instead. That's fine too, but it's a choice. You also have some control over your attractiveness. You have some control over physical attractiveness with clothes, sport and grooming. Fortunately for you, for men physical attractiveness and age are not of overriding importance they pretty much are for women. As you note, confidence and social status are also very important (see Berlusconi for an extreme example). These are things you can work on! Intelligence is important too, and you're probably already doing quite well on that front.
- singular 14y ago
  Thanks, very thoughtful post, indeed I think it is a market. My point is that there are attributes of mine which rule out women who I find at least vaguely attractive (and I'm not being picky, honestly), so perhaps I'm simply not able to compete in this market. I wish the physical factors such as height weren't such a big factor, as that is obviously impossible to change. If I believed I could eliminate it, I'd gladly start hitting the gym hard right now. But I am so convinced that it's such a huge thing that I find it very hard to believe that'll make all that much difference.
  - jules 14y ago
    I can assure you that a fit small body is more attractive than an unfit large one to a sizable amount of people (for what it's worth, Tom Cruise is not tall either). From what I've heard the importance given to height may be a US phenomenon. It's still a plus elsewhere, but less so. Are you in the US? Height also varies a lot between countries: you would would be tall in Indonesia (average 5'2), but here in the Netherlands you would be quite small (average 6'1). My father and brother are also small (perhaps even smaller than you relative to the population average), but they are doing fine relationship wise. Not all is lost!

Retric 14y ago

That's true in both online and offline dating. My suggestion if you want a far easier time hooking up is to simply get into very good shape. Height, weight, completion, and dress are all vary important in first impressions. But surprisingly weight / fitness is by far the most important.

singular 14y ago
I would be more than willing to do that, if I believed it was as much of a factor as height/looks/cocky confidence. I actually experimented with this, lost > 55lb in weight, worked really hard, and it made no difference. None. As you can imagine, motivation to do these things is not great these days.
- Retric 14y ago
  If losing that much weight made no difference your either still significantly over weight, gained no mussel mass, aiming rather high, or something else is wrong. My honest suggestion is to remove you expectations. Spend a month responding to every profile until you start getting responses you don't have to keep going after that but you need a little signal to start. Then do some A/B testing to see what helps vs. hurts your response rate. PS: Think of your profile like a resume you get ~5 seconds to catch someones interest.
  - singular 14y ago
    I looked a lot better, but there was definitely still flab. You exclude the possibility that other factors outweighed (no pun intended) the weight issue? We're talking > 55lb, so it obviously had a major visual impact. I don't believe it should have had no impact. Maybe minor, but for it to make no difference says something about other factors I think. when I was young I wasn't overweight at all, and had exactly the same experience. I agree that the profile is like that. You have very little time to catch somebody's attention.
    - rjh29 14y ago
      Do not underestimate the confidence and well-being you can get from getting into shape. And it doesn't take a long time - perhaps 2 or 3 hours a week at the gym or at home, exercising and eating right. That alone can distinguish you from a lot of other people who are either unfit, or fit but lacking your other qualities (I am assuming: intelligence, a good job, etc....) Getting yourself into shape is sort of like a magic bullet. To do it you either need to be, or will become: driven, motivated, strong-willed and with the capacity to see things through to the end. The improvement acts as a positive feedback loop. I can't recommend it enough.

jules 14y ago

Remember that dating works much like a market. There is supply and demand, and since there are about as many men as women, the supply and demand is roughly equal. But in some places this ratio is not equal. I'm not sure about dating sites, but that could be such a place. Simplifying a lot: if there are 1000 women and 2000 men then the women will date the 1000 most attractive men, and the rest have basically no chance. You need to find a place where the numbers are reversed. The good thing about dating being a market is that you can find somebody. The thing is that you have to place your standards around your level of attractiveness or lower. Contrary to the popular romantic image of a non attractive male dating a very attractive female, almost all relationships happen between people of very similar attractiveness. You may be less popular height wise, so you might need to compromise on an attribute that makes a woman less popular (e.g. weight or age). Perhaps you have decided that the compromises you would have to make are too great, and you'll rather stay single instead. That's fine too, but it's a choice. You also have some control over your attractiveness. You have some control over physical attractiveness with clothes, sport and grooming. Fortunately for you, for men physical attractiveness and age are not of overriding importance they pretty much are for women. As you note, confidence and social status are also very important (see Berlusconi for an extreme example). These are things you can work on! Intelligence is important too, and you're probably already doing quite well on that front.

singular 14y ago
Thanks, very thoughtful post, indeed I think it is a market. My point is that there are attributes of mine which rule out women who I find at least vaguely attractive (and I'm not being picky, honestly), so perhaps I'm simply not able to compete in this market. I wish the physical factors such as height weren't such a big factor, as that is obviously impossible to change. If I believed I could eliminate it, I'd gladly start hitting the gym hard right now. But I am so convinced that it's such a huge thing that I find it very hard to believe that'll make all that much difference.
- jules 14y ago
  I can assure you that a fit small body is more attractive than an unfit large one to a sizable amount of people (for what it's worth, Tom Cruise is not tall either). From what I've heard the importance given to height may be a US phenomenon. It's still a plus elsewhere, but less so. Are you in the US? Height also varies a lot between countries: you would would be tall in Indonesia (average 5'2), but here in the Netherlands you would be quite small (average 6'1). My father and brother are also small (perhaps even smaller than you relative to the population average), but they are doing fine relationship wise. Not all is lost!