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We lived in the US for a couple years when I was in grade school. My parents always laughed and mocked the stickers that my teacher would put on our assignments

by GuiA 14y ago

We lived in the US for a couple years when I was in grade school. My parents always laughed and mocked the stickers that my teacher would put on our assignments: "Great Job!", "You're the best!", "#1". (almost 20 years later, it is still a recurring joke in my family). An English professor of mine in college loved to dissect differences between the French and English language, and how they highlighted the differences in how anglo-saxon cultures and French culture approach education. French schools mark out of 20 (0 being worst, 20 being best); but no one ever gets 20. In middle and high school, getting 17 or 18 is already stupendous; in college, top students rarely ever go above 15, and some professors skew their grading to rarely give out marks above 10 in order to toughen up students. On the other hand, getting an A or a 100% in a US college class is not all that hard. In French, we also often use the verb "to perfect" ("se parfaire") to mean "improve"; for instance, "I'm taking classes to perfect my English". I don't believe I've ever encountered that construction in English (if it is grammatically correct, then it is infinitely rarer) My professor's main point being that in French culture, perfection is something we strive towards, but never achieve; whereas in anglo-saxon culture, it is something fully within reach. I was never a straight A student; in middle and high school, my grades would rarely go above 14/20; in college, they were more around 12/20. I did finish my undergrad in a British institution, where my marks immediately skyrocketed and I graduated with the highest honors (ha). In grad school (US), I got a B or two, but they always were from some tough foreign professors. By contrast, I dated an American girl for a while who had always been a straight A student in middle/high school (graduated valedictorian) and college (graduated on the dean's roll etc. etc.). Her blaring success stopped right as she graduated college though; she quickly fell in deep depression at that point due to the stark contrast with what she experienced and the professional world. Addendum: Differences between the French (and European to some extent) and American culture have fascinated me for the past few years, as I grew up in a pluricultural environment in the later years, but very French in my early years (and as I slowly become a functioning adult, understanding what shaped my youth and education is interesting to me). To anyone interested in that question, I recommend the book "Bringing Up Bébé" by Pamela Druckerman, which is about a British/American couple discovering French parenting and contrasting it with their own. It is pop-cultury and light on actual research, but does contain interesting insights. Any recommendations on that same topic are very welcome :)

hapless 14y ago
Statistically, most students in American colleges achieve low marks, fail a lot of classes, or drop out entirely. I suspect these students still encounter daunting obstacles in the real world. The difference between schooling and the real world is not the heapings of praise, it is the lack of regimentation. In the white-collar workplace, there is not often a cohort of twenty men completing the exact same carefully-directed tasks as the recent graduate. p.s. English "perfect" comes from Old French. Using it as a verb is valid but rarely seen in today's English. To me, the sentence "I am in a class to perfect my French" seems arrogant because it implies that my French is already very good.
- GuiA 14y ago
  >Statistically, most students in American colleges achieve low marks, fail a lot of classes, or drop out entirely. I suspect these students still encounter daunting obstacles in the real world. Very good point. Perhaps my point then becomes more about how the top ~30% of students are treated, rather than all of them. Incidentally, I am reminded of this paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9686450 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9686450
- evincarofautumn 14y ago
  I agree with you about praise versus regimentation. My parents never really praised or chided me and my sister. If we did something wrong, they treated it as a learning opportunity. If you washed the dishes badly, it was probably because you just need to learn how to wash dishes better. If you hit somebody, it was probably because you need to learn why hitting other kids isn’t necessarily the best way to resolve an argument. So in a way I was raised to believe that praise and encouragement for their own sake are basically useless—real critique should give you a simple, concrete handhold by which to improve yourself. We also had a lot of freedom to make our own mistakes, though my parents were always there if we needed them. And that isn’t at all how school works. I wasn’t very “successful” in school, because I was depressed by the dishonesty of getting good grades without any real effort. All the way through college, I wanted challenges, but there simply weren’t any to be had. So I had to find my own and motivate myself to learn and improve, or else I would have killed myself. So, sure, I got some bad grades, failed a couple of classes, and dropped out of college. But it was just because I’m the kind of person who’s better off working on real challenges. The “real world” didn’t break me down—it saved my life.

by GuiA 14y ago

hapless 14y ago

Statistically, most students in American colleges achieve low marks, fail a lot of classes, or drop out entirely. I suspect these students still encounter daunting obstacles in the real world. The difference between schooling and the real world is not the heapings of praise, it is the lack of regimentation. In the white-collar workplace, there is not often a cohort of twenty men completing the exact same carefully-directed tasks as the recent graduate. p.s. English "perfect" comes from Old French. Using it as a verb is valid but rarely seen in today's English. To me, the sentence "I am in a class to perfect my French" seems arrogant because it implies that my French is already very good.

GuiA 14y ago
>Statistically, most students in American colleges achieve low marks, fail a lot of classes, or drop out entirely. I suspect these students still encounter daunting obstacles in the real world. Very good point. Perhaps my point then becomes more about how the top ~30% of students are treated, rather than all of them. Incidentally, I am reminded of this paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9686450 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9686450
evincarofautumn 14y ago
I agree with you about praise versus regimentation. My parents never really praised or chided me and my sister. If we did something wrong, they treated it as a learning opportunity. If you washed the dishes badly, it was probably because you just need to learn how to wash dishes better. If you hit somebody, it was probably because you need to learn why hitting other kids isn’t necessarily the best way to resolve an argument. So in a way I was raised to believe that praise and encouragement for their own sake are basically useless—real critique should give you a simple, concrete handhold by which to improve yourself. We also had a lot of freedom to make our own mistakes, though my parents were always there if we needed them. And that isn’t at all how school works. I wasn’t very “successful” in school, because I was depressed by the dishonesty of getting good grades without any real effort. All the way through college, I wanted challenges, but there simply weren’t any to be had. So I had to find my own and motivate myself to learn and improve, or else I would have killed myself. So, sure, I got some bad grades, failed a couple of classes, and dropped out of college. But it was just because I’m the kind of person who’s better off working on real challenges. The “real world” didn’t break me down—it saved my life.