5 ms·

Customers are not as inevitable as gravity. How do they find their customers?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
new-world-order 14y ago
Yes, they are, if you're any good. Most business in the developed world nowadays are executed mostly in software. The demand for custom software far exceeds the supply of productive developers.
- javert 14y ago
  This is a complete non-answer. Something like "advertise in the newspaper," "cold-call random companies and ask if they need any software," "try to network at indsustry conferences for some chosen sector you want to implement software for," etc. would be examples of real answers. Of course, I'm sure someone with expertise in this would have much better advice than the made-up answers I just gave.
  - thetrumanshow 14y ago
    Small software companies often barter with local old-school advertisers and trade custom software products for exposure in the local marketplace. They used to trade for web apps and line-of-business software, but as you might imagine, mobile apps are the currency of the small software companies today.
jacques_chester 14y ago
Lots of people contract to a former employer. That's what I'm doing at the moment.
- javert 14y ago
  How does that work out? I mean, it seems like if someone went to their employer and said, "I'm going to stop working for you, but if you pay me more than you are now, I will sell you software," they would say, "No thanks."
  - jacques_chester 14y ago
    I quit my job for family reasons; they asked me to stay on as contractor. It's a surprisingly common pattern, I'm told. I am developing a niche tool for business at the moment. To get my initial customers I expect I will go visit them in their offices, ask questions and show them the prototype. Old fashioned, but I've picked an area where improving performance by a few percent can mean millions of dollars difference in outcomes.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Businesses are rational. If they need what you're selling, and buying it from you is more cost-effective (inclusive of risk) than building up an internal process to deliver it themselves, they'll buy it. This apart from the fact that transforming an employee to a contractor is often a net financial win for a company. Not just because of benefits, but also because when the contractor finishes, you don't have to find a way to fire them.
    - jacques_chester 14y ago
      Right. Another thing that contractors are good for is mopping up the unspent money allocated to various line items. Most places with a union/enterprise bargain contract don't allow the employer to a project without a full time equivalent wage attached somewhere in the budget. So when there's a few thousand left, it might be difficult to spend. Enter, stage right, the contractor, to whom no such rules apply.
  - andrewtbham 14y ago
    i have a friend who was laid off, but then a year later they hired him back as a contractor at a much higher rate.
  - 14y ago
subsystem 14y ago
Networking. You often have one or more of the partners working on making new and sustaining old contacts. In the consulting business it pays to have someone with his ear to the ground, as it can change quite rapidly.
tptacek 14y ago
A consultancy usually starts by nucleating around the contacts and first few engagements brought in by the principals. Given a few starting engagements for a few different customers, one of them is likely to turn into recurring revenue, and another is likely to provide a referral. Then, if your delivery establishes any kind of track record at all and you're working in a "hot" area (Rails in 2008-2009, iOS in the last 3 years, &c) you can start picking up cold inbounds just by putting your name out there (on a website, with a blog, posting on message boards). Things snowball after that. Most small consultancies I'm acquainted with never advertise and don't have salespeople. One thing you really need to understand is that successful consultancies don't treat clients the way HN tends to think about customers. If the process of extracting recurring engagements and referrals from customers is mysterious to you, it's because you're thinking too transactionally. You see this all the time on HN on threads about people's time tracking and invoicing techniques. The people on those threads often sound like they can't wait to get away from their customers. Of course they have trouble finding new ones. Their business processes are client-aversive.
- Evbn 14y ago
  I have never met someone who hired a programming consultant or contract company. (not talking about a MSFT contract employee. ) I have seen a few Oracle database contractors. Who are these companies hiring Pivotal or whoever less famous?
  - king_magic 14y ago
    Consultant here :-) Believe me, the demand is huge. I can't name my company's clients, but we have consulted for a good deal of very big names.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    More companies hire consultants than don't.
- orangethirty 14y ago
  Good point. People here see clients as if they were sitting on a stack. Just going through them one at a time. FIFO. But thats not the way to treat people. Clients are human beings, they want to be taken care of and understood. Some of them are easier to understand than others, but at the end of the day, everybody wants the same thing. They just want to find someone who will listen, take them seriously, and be there when shit hits the fan. I always keep in touch with clients, and make an effort to send them business. For example, I did a project for a startup who has a great product. From one of my ads on HN, I got contacted to do some engineering work. But hey, my client's product can do what this other person needs at a fraction of the cost. So I advised the person inquiring and got him in touch with the client. They were able to agree on terms. My client made a huge sale. The prospect saved thousands of dollars. And I was able to expand my network with another happy person.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

Yes, they are, if you're any good. Most business in the developed world nowadays are executed mostly in software. The demand for custom software far exceeds the supply of productive developers.

javert 14y ago
This is a complete non-answer. Something like "advertise in the newspaper," "cold-call random companies and ask if they need any software," "try to network at indsustry conferences for some chosen sector you want to implement software for," etc. would be examples of real answers. Of course, I'm sure someone with expertise in this would have much better advice than the made-up answers I just gave.
- thetrumanshow 14y ago
  Small software companies often barter with local old-school advertisers and trade custom software products for exposure in the local marketplace. They used to trade for web apps and line-of-business software, but as you might imagine, mobile apps are the currency of the small software companies today.

jacques_chester 14y ago

Lots of people contract to a former employer. That's what I'm doing at the moment.

javert 14y ago
How does that work out? I mean, it seems like if someone went to their employer and said, "I'm going to stop working for you, but if you pay me more than you are now, I will sell you software," they would say, "No thanks."
- jacques_chester 14y ago
  I quit my job for family reasons; they asked me to stay on as contractor. It's a surprisingly common pattern, I'm told. I am developing a niche tool for business at the moment. To get my initial customers I expect I will go visit them in their offices, ask questions and show them the prototype. Old fashioned, but I've picked an area where improving performance by a few percent can mean millions of dollars difference in outcomes.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Businesses are rational. If they need what you're selling, and buying it from you is more cost-effective (inclusive of risk) than building up an internal process to deliver it themselves, they'll buy it. This apart from the fact that transforming an employee to a contractor is often a net financial win for a company. Not just because of benefits, but also because when the contractor finishes, you don't have to find a way to fire them.
  - jacques_chester 14y ago
    Right. Another thing that contractors are good for is mopping up the unspent money allocated to various line items. Most places with a union/enterprise bargain contract don't allow the employer to a project without a full time equivalent wage attached somewhere in the budget. So when there's a few thousand left, it might be difficult to spend. Enter, stage right, the contractor, to whom no such rules apply.
- andrewtbham 14y ago
  i have a friend who was laid off, but then a year later they hired him back as a contractor at a much higher rate.
- 14y ago

subsystem 14y ago

Networking. You often have one or more of the partners working on making new and sustaining old contacts. In the consulting business it pays to have someone with his ear to the ground, as it can change quite rapidly.

tptacek 14y ago

A consultancy usually starts by nucleating around the contacts and first few engagements brought in by the principals. Given a few starting engagements for a few different customers, one of them is likely to turn into recurring revenue, and another is likely to provide a referral. Then, if your delivery establishes any kind of track record at all and you're working in a "hot" area (Rails in 2008-2009, iOS in the last 3 years, &c) you can start picking up cold inbounds just by putting your name out there (on a website, with a blog, posting on message boards). Things snowball after that. Most small consultancies I'm acquainted with never advertise and don't have salespeople. One thing you really need to understand is that successful consultancies don't treat clients the way HN tends to think about customers. If the process of extracting recurring engagements and referrals from customers is mysterious to you, it's because you're thinking too transactionally. You see this all the time on HN on threads about people's time tracking and invoicing techniques. The people on those threads often sound like they can't wait to get away from their customers. Of course they have trouble finding new ones. Their business processes are client-aversive.

Evbn 14y ago
I have never met someone who hired a programming consultant or contract company. (not talking about a MSFT contract employee. ) I have seen a few Oracle database contractors. Who are these companies hiring Pivotal or whoever less famous?
- king_magic 14y ago
  Consultant here :-) Believe me, the demand is huge. I can't name my company's clients, but we have consulted for a good deal of very big names.
- tptacek 14y ago
  More companies hire consultants than don't.
orangethirty 14y ago
Good point. People here see clients as if they were sitting on a stack. Just going through them one at a time. FIFO. But thats not the way to treat people. Clients are human beings, they want to be taken care of and understood. Some of them are easier to understand than others, but at the end of the day, everybody wants the same thing. They just want to find someone who will listen, take them seriously, and be there when shit hits the fan. I always keep in touch with clients, and make an effort to send them business. For example, I did a project for a startup who has a great product. From one of my ads on HN, I got contacted to do some engineering work. But hey, my client's product can do what this other person needs at a fraction of the cost. So I advised the person inquiring and got him in touch with the client. They were able to agree on terms. My client made a huge sale. The prospect saved thousands of dollars. And I was able to expand my network with another happy person.