4 ms·

Intentional, I believe. It is habit forming and addictive, compared to say, taking Omega-3s before bed every day.

by jychang 14y ago

rednukleus 14y ago
The stranger point is including Modafinil, which is not addictive at all.
- thomasbk 14y ago
  You do however build up a tolerance to modafinil, and it has various negative side-effects. But I agree that it's weird to make some sort of hard separation between various types of nootropics, and say that you should never touch some. Everything potentially has its use, and I think that Gwern covers this topic exceedingly well at his site.
  - jrogers65 14y ago
    I did not advocate staying away from them but using them sporadically as opposed to regularly: > Stay away from the above, unless taken very occasionally
driverdan 14y ago
Just because something is physically addictive doesn't mean it has negative health consequences. Many studies have shown that long term, low to moderate caffeine consumption (especially coffee) has a positive impact on overall health. Caffeine, amphetamines, and modafinil are not neurotoxic. I believe the others aren't either but I haven't read up on them. Methamphetamine is neurotoxic but non-methylated amphetamines are not.
- jrogers65 14y ago
  The problem is that these studies are narrow and only look at a handful of the aspects of consumption. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_caffeine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_caffeine > Short term side effects such as headache, nausea, and anxiety have been shown as symptoms of mild caffeine consumption. When assessing the health impact of a drug, it is important to look at the whole picture. Amp is indeed neurotoxic, though the exact effect is a little nuanced and dose-dependent. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15019431 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15019431 > In addition to the social, cultural and indirect medical complications of amphetamine analog abuse, this class of drugs is also known to have the potential to damage brain monoaminergic cells directly. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17606768 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17606768 > In early studies, high doses of amphetamine, comparable to amounts used by addicts, were shown to damage dopaminergic pathways. More recent studies, using therapeutic regimens, appear contradictory. One paradigm shows significant decreases in striatal dopamine and transporter density after oral administration of "therapeutic" doses in primates. Another shows morphological evidence of "trophic" dendritic growth in the brains of adult and juvenile rats given systemic injections mimicking "therapeutic" treatment. Imaging studies of ADHD-diagnosed individuals show an increase in striatal dopamine transporter availability that may be reduced by methylphenidate treatment. I did not claim that caffeine and modafinil are neurotoxic, just amphetamine.
tripzilch 14y ago
any particular reason to take them before bed? on my bottle of fish oil caps it says to take them with a meal?

Intentional, I believe. It is habit forming and addictive, compared to say, taking Omega-3s before bed every day.

by jychang 14y ago

Intentional, I believe. It is habit forming and addictive, compared to say, taking Omega-3s before bed every day.

rednukleus 14y ago

The stranger point is including Modafinil, which is not addictive at all.

thomasbk 14y ago
You do however build up a tolerance to modafinil, and it has various negative side-effects. But I agree that it's weird to make some sort of hard separation between various types of nootropics, and say that you should never touch some. Everything potentially has its use, and I think that Gwern covers this topic exceedingly well at his site.
- jrogers65 14y ago
  I did not advocate staying away from them but using them sporadically as opposed to regularly: > Stay away from the above, unless taken very occasionally

driverdan 14y ago

Just because something is physically addictive doesn't mean it has negative health consequences. Many studies have shown that long term, low to moderate caffeine consumption (especially coffee) has a positive impact on overall health. Caffeine, amphetamines, and modafinil are not neurotoxic. I believe the others aren't either but I haven't read up on them. Methamphetamine is neurotoxic but non-methylated amphetamines are not.

jrogers65 14y ago
The problem is that these studies are narrow and only look at a handful of the aspects of consumption. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_caffeine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_caffeine > Short term side effects such as headache, nausea, and anxiety have been shown as symptoms of mild caffeine consumption. When assessing the health impact of a drug, it is important to look at the whole picture. Amp is indeed neurotoxic, though the exact effect is a little nuanced and dose-dependent. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15019431 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15019431 > In addition to the social, cultural and indirect medical complications of amphetamine analog abuse, this class of drugs is also known to have the potential to damage brain monoaminergic cells directly. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17606768 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17606768 > In early studies, high doses of amphetamine, comparable to amounts used by addicts, were shown to damage dopaminergic pathways. More recent studies, using therapeutic regimens, appear contradictory. One paradigm shows significant decreases in striatal dopamine and transporter density after oral administration of "therapeutic" doses in primates. Another shows morphological evidence of "trophic" dendritic growth in the brains of adult and juvenile rats given systemic injections mimicking "therapeutic" treatment. Imaging studies of ADHD-diagnosed individuals show an increase in striatal dopamine transporter availability that may be reduced by methylphenidate treatment. I did not claim that caffeine and modafinil are neurotoxic, just amphetamine.

tripzilch 14y ago

any particular reason to take them before bed? on my bottle of fish oil caps it says to take them with a meal?