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Yep, in a way the jvm is doing the one thing that native platforms haven't. That is provide a universal (in java land at least) interface in java bytecode to la
by mitchty 14y ago
Yep, in a way the jvm is doing the one thing that native platforms haven't. That is provide a universal (in java land at least) interface in java bytecode to languages running within the jvm.
Think about the ffi annoyances with c->c++->other-lang, its so simple in jruby to use clojure libraries, or rhino for some other stuff, or vice-versa, or whatever.
And I'm not a java fanboy, but that fundamental aspect of the jvm as a platform is crazy cool.
- bitwize 14y agoThe same is true of Mono/.NET as well; in fact the CLR was designed for this and has features the JVM lacks, such as parametric types, invokedynamic, tail calls, etc. If you're into functional programming the CLR is the runtime to beat.
- nirvdrum 14y agoinvokedynamic is new in JDK 7. It still has some maturing to do, but JRuby is already targeting it.
- WildUtah 14y agoCLR is the runtime to beat Except it doesn't run on any useful platforms. Java makes the effort to be consistent and good on a wide variety of quality systems.
- jiggy2011 14y agoI think MS missed a beat here, if they had pushed for the .Net CLR to be a first class and equal citizen on OS X , iOS and Linux they would probably be in a much more relevant position in the future.
- YeahKIA 14y agoIts an open spec that can be implemented on any other platform that cares. Mono is available on many platforms btw
- jiggy2011 14y agoThis is true, but Mono has always lacked implementations of a bunch of APIs and had not quite as nice dev tools. If there had been a true first party (i.e provided by MS .Net CLR) for other platforms it would probably have had massive traction.
- pbz 14y agoNo, it wouldn't. Let's be honest, people would say it's from Microsoft and not use it for that very reason. Could be better than JVM and still most wouldn't use it. Linus was right, the hatred of Microsoft is a disease, and a lot of people in the open source community suffer from it.
- guard-of-terra 14y agoMicrosoft cast it upon itself. When you cry wolf all the time, nobody comes to help. Microsoft can't let go. They can't say "this code is now open and no strings attached". They can say "but not really". They can say "but don't touch anything". Microsoft can't open. What they can do is okay for consumers. Consumers will download whatever software available and use that. Developers? Hell no. Developers don't trust openness that can be revoked. Because this means their product stops working.
- pbz 14y agoThen how do you explain that with mono? It's open source, but since it used MS's specs, with OS license, it has been vilified by the open source community. The reality of the matter is that while developers like to think they're rational, they're just as emotional as any non-developer. Their decisions are driven by emotions, by their hatred for MS or some other company / technology, hence the disease Linus was talking about.
- guard-of-terra 14y agoHow is it vilified? De Icaza loved it and pushed everywhere. Gnome played with it. But mono is not .Net. I mean, if you look at Java, there is a very strict process which a JVM implementation must undergo in order to be called Java (and still there are a dozen of such implementations). It means it behaves predictably and have every one of the required APIs. And most of development tools are written in Java. On the other hand, with .Net we have Microsoft implementation on Windows - and we have everything else. .Net on Windows has a massive number of APIs (many of those system dependent), hatches into COM, can easily use native code and libraries. Most .Net tools only work on Windows and are written as a mixture of native code, bytecode and COM. And mono is a second class citisen forever. It will never have all those limitless APIs and will never have all the tooling. It is extremelly unlikely that developers (of proprietary, in-house, server software) who use OS X or Linux as their development environment will ever adopt it. Nobody likes to be second class. Programming is painful enough even without that.
- zanny 14y agoMono supports everything under the sun.
- topbanana 14y agoThere's no WPF
- zanny 14y agoIt uses GTK#. What do you expect, WPF is a Microsoft licensed tech, you can't blame Xamarin for not stealing it. A GUI written to GTK# is portable to ios, Android, OSX, Windows, and Linux, and a bunch more marginally obscure targets. Every platform under the sun.
- camus 14y agoWhy would MS make .NET really cross plateform ? MS is here to sell Windows and Windows Software, nothing more. Mono is an unofficial hack and can be shut down anytime by Microsoft , i would not bet my career on that stuff.
- thebluesky 14y agoScala provides tail call optimization and invoke dynamic has been in the JVM for years (since JDK7). The JVM is also considerably faster than the CLR and unlike Mono is heavily used in industry.
- drivebyacct2 14y agoIs the same true of LLVM?