5 ms·

JVM is definetly going to be exciting just not because of Java but all other JVM languages.

by va9 14y ago

mitchty 14y ago
Yep, in a way the jvm is doing the one thing that native platforms haven't. That is provide a universal (in java land at least) interface in java bytecode to languages running within the jvm. Think about the ffi annoyances with c->c++->other-lang, its so simple in jruby to use clojure libraries, or rhino for some other stuff, or vice-versa, or whatever. And I'm not a java fanboy, but that fundamental aspect of the jvm as a platform is crazy cool.
- bitwize 14y ago
  The same is true of Mono/.NET as well; in fact the CLR was designed for this and has features the JVM lacks, such as parametric types, invokedynamic, tail calls, etc. If you're into functional programming the CLR is the runtime to beat.
  - nirvdrum 14y ago
    invokedynamic is new in JDK 7. It still has some maturing to do, but JRuby is already targeting it.
  - WildUtah 14y ago
    CLR is the runtime to beat Except it doesn't run on any useful platforms. Java makes the effort to be consistent and good on a wide variety of quality systems.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      I think MS missed a beat here, if they had pushed for the .Net CLR to be a first class and equal citizen on OS X , iOS and Linux they would probably be in a much more relevant position in the future.
      - YeahKIA 14y ago
        Its an open spec that can be implemented on any other platform that cares. Mono is available on many platforms btw
        jiggy2011 14y ago
        This is true, but Mono has always lacked implementations of a bunch of APIs and had not quite as nice dev tools. If there had been a true first party (i.e provided by MS .Net CLR) for other platforms it would probably have had massive traction.
        pbz 14y ago
        No, it wouldn't. Let's be honest, people would say it's from Microsoft and not use it for that very reason. Could be better than JVM and still most wouldn't use it. Linus was right, the hatred of Microsoft is a disease, and a lot of people in the open source community suffer from it.
        guard-of-terra 14y ago
        Microsoft cast it upon itself. When you cry wolf all the time, nobody comes to help. Microsoft can't let go. They can't say "this code is now open and no strings attached". They can say "but not really". They can say "but don't touch anything". Microsoft can't open. What they can do is okay for consumers. Consumers will download whatever software available and use that. Developers? Hell no. Developers don't trust openness that can be revoked. Because this means their product stops working.
        pbz 14y ago
        Then how do you explain that with mono? It's open source, but since it used MS's specs, with OS license, it has been vilified by the open source community. The reality of the matter is that while developers like to think they're rational, they're just as emotional as any non-developer. Their decisions are driven by emotions, by their hatred for MS or some other company / technology, hence the disease Linus was talking about.
    - zanny 14y ago
      Mono supports everything under the sun.
      - topbanana 14y ago
        There's no WPF
        zanny 14y ago
        It uses GTK#. What do you expect, WPF is a Microsoft licensed tech, you can't blame Xamarin for not stealing it. A GUI written to GTK# is portable to ios, Android, OSX, Windows, and Linux, and a bunch more marginally obscure targets. Every platform under the sun.
  - camus 14y ago
    Why would MS make .NET really cross plateform ? MS is here to sell Windows and Windows Software, nothing more. Mono is an unofficial hack and can be shut down anytime by Microsoft , i would not bet my career on that stuff.
  - thebluesky 14y ago
    Scala provides tail call optimization and invoke dynamic has been in the JVM for years (since JDK7). The JVM is also considerably faster than the CLR and unlike Mono is heavily used in industry.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  Is the same true of LLVM?

JVM is definetly going to be exciting just not because of Java but all other JVM languages.

by va9 14y ago

JVM is definetly going to be exciting just not because of Java but all other JVM languages.

Yep, in a way the jvm is doing the one thing that native platforms haven't. That is provide a universal (in java land at least) interface in java bytecode to languages running within the jvm. Think about the ffi annoyances with c->c++->other-lang, its so simple in jruby to use clojure libraries, or rhino for some other stuff, or vice-versa, or whatever. And I'm not a java fanboy, but that fundamental aspect of the jvm as a platform is crazy cool.

bitwize 14y ago
The same is true of Mono/.NET as well; in fact the CLR was designed for this and has features the JVM lacks, such as parametric types, invokedynamic, tail calls, etc. If you're into functional programming the CLR is the runtime to beat.
- nirvdrum 14y ago
  invokedynamic is new in JDK 7. It still has some maturing to do, but JRuby is already targeting it.
- WildUtah 14y ago
  CLR is the runtime to beat Except it doesn't run on any useful platforms. Java makes the effort to be consistent and good on a wide variety of quality systems.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    I think MS missed a beat here, if they had pushed for the .Net CLR to be a first class and equal citizen on OS X , iOS and Linux they would probably be in a much more relevant position in the future.
    - YeahKIA 14y ago
      Its an open spec that can be implemented on any other platform that cares. Mono is available on many platforms btw
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        This is true, but Mono has always lacked implementations of a bunch of APIs and had not quite as nice dev tools. If there had been a true first party (i.e provided by MS .Net CLR) for other platforms it would probably have had massive traction.
        pbz 14y ago
        No, it wouldn't. Let's be honest, people would say it's from Microsoft and not use it for that very reason. Could be better than JVM and still most wouldn't use it. Linus was right, the hatred of Microsoft is a disease, and a lot of people in the open source community suffer from it.
        guard-of-terra 14y ago
        Microsoft cast it upon itself. When you cry wolf all the time, nobody comes to help. Microsoft can't let go. They can't say "this code is now open and no strings attached". They can say "but not really". They can say "but don't touch anything". Microsoft can't open. What they can do is okay for consumers. Consumers will download whatever software available and use that. Developers? Hell no. Developers don't trust openness that can be revoked. Because this means their product stops working.
        pbz 14y ago
        Then how do you explain that with mono? It's open source, but since it used MS's specs, with OS license, it has been vilified by the open source community. The reality of the matter is that while developers like to think they're rational, they're just as emotional as any non-developer. Their decisions are driven by emotions, by their hatred for MS or some other company / technology, hence the disease Linus was talking about.
  - zanny 14y ago
    Mono supports everything under the sun.
    - topbanana 14y ago
      There's no WPF
      - zanny 14y ago
        It uses GTK#. What do you expect, WPF is a Microsoft licensed tech, you can't blame Xamarin for not stealing it. A GUI written to GTK# is portable to ios, Android, OSX, Windows, and Linux, and a bunch more marginally obscure targets. Every platform under the sun.
- camus 14y ago
  Why would MS make .NET really cross plateform ? MS is here to sell Windows and Windows Software, nothing more. Mono is an unofficial hack and can be shut down anytime by Microsoft , i would not bet my career on that stuff.
- thebluesky 14y ago
  Scala provides tail call optimization and invoke dynamic has been in the JVM for years (since JDK7). The JVM is also considerably faster than the CLR and unlike Mono is heavily used in industry.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
Is the same true of LLVM?