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> As someone who would be in attendance at a tech conference I will tell you: I do not care at all what the gender is of the presenter. Aaaaand that's the prob

> As someone who would be in attendance at a tech conference I will tell you: I do not care at all what the gender is of the presenter. Aaaaand that's the problem. When half of the population isn't participating in one of the most important fields for the advancement of our prosperity, and the other half doesn't give a fuck, nothing gets better. All the time we hear that it's tough to find skilled engineers. Guess what? We can double those numbers – as soon as this perma-adolscent male monoculture gives way to a healthy balance of both men and women. But it's going to take your learning how to care about inclusion. Yes, you. And everyone else.

kyberias 14y ago
I don't understand this and I think I ultimately disagree with you deeply. Women clearly are not that interested in computing per se. There are other fields that "advance our prosperity" where the situation is the other way around. That it would somehow make the world a better place if we force an artificial ratio of genders in all fields, is incorrect.
- phaylon 14y ago
  You say women aren't interested in computing per se. Can you elaborate on what you believe the reasons for this to be?
  - kyberias 14y ago
    I don't know the reason and I don't care to guess. The same applies to sciences as well. It's certainly not limited to CS or IT.
    - phaylon 14y ago
      I agree, it's a problem of a larger scope. But do you think it has to be like that because of biology or any such reason, or do you think it's a result of historical and social factors? Some people think it might be worth to sacrifice a little so things might get a bit better in the long run, and that every small step counts to be welcoming to anyone. Edit: Note that I ask for either or in the first paragraph because I believe the latter would be a more easily fixable scenario than the former.
      - kyberias 14y ago
        > But do you think it has to be like that because of biology or any such reason, or do you think it's a result of historical and social factors? I _think_ it's both. Certainly it is plausible that female and male brains are wired at least slightly differently. But there must be some social factors is play as well.
- danilocampos 14y ago
  > Women clearly are not that interested in computing per se. Clearly to whom, sir? Not to me. Many of the women I know are interested in computing. The ones who've made a career in tech continually lament to me the attitude you've just demonstrated.
  - kyberias 14y ago
    Look, I don't think I personally have any 'attitude' here. Girls like to be doctors or biologists, rather than staring at the screen for 8 hours a day. Perhaps boys have higher frequency of introvert temperament traits. I don't know.
    - danilocampos 14y ago
      > Girls like to be doctors or biologists, rather than staring at the screen for 8 hours a day. > Look, I don't think I personally have any 'attitude' here. Wooooooow.
  - thedelimiter 14y ago
    They may wish more women were like them... but the data doesn't support your claim women want to be in Tech. If you do a Meyers-Briggs profiling of the female population compared to the male population, you will find that there are many more NT types (analytical thinking) among the males. Those types are much more inclined to find a career in engineering rewarding. I remember someone posting on Hacker News how a woman said "I could never do your job. Sitting in front of a computer all day being antisocial... I'd rather die." Of course people who live in a world of ideas like engineers do not see it that way. Software development is like solving interesting puzzles all day long. You have to come to terms with the fact that most of the population, not just females, is not like you. NT types are just 12% of the population. I think around 25% of that 12% are females. Now of course that means there are females who exist that would enjoy a career in engineering, but the balance is definitely not 50-50.
blindhippo 14y ago
No, it really isn't the problem at all - you are clearly misunderstanding me. It is no one's job to encourage any gender specifically to join any specific discipline. Women offer nothing over men when it comes to engineering discipines, and men offer nothing over women - they are EQUAL. Therefore focussing on gender as an attribute is pointless. Any policy or approach that trys to encourage women specifically to join our disciline is unethical and sexist by it's very definition. This is what I'm talking about in relation to the article. The proposed solution is wrong and pointless to pursue - should we add a woman to every tech panel even if she has no business being on that panel intellectually? Adding a "woman's voice" would add nothing, solve nothing and merely perpetuate pointless gender wars.
- danilocampos 14y ago
  > when it comes to engineering discipines, and men offer nothing over women - they are EQUAL. Agreed completely. And yet here we are with our sausage party. What a shame to have half our potential minds excluded for reasons we're all just too culturally lazy to examine or fix.
dennisgorelik 14y ago
Actually 99+% of the population isn't participating in any given field. So what? That's called specialization. If women are better at something than men - let them focus in that field -- no need to forcefully mixing genders.
- danilocampos 14y ago
  If men are just... "better" at computers than women, why was Grace Hopper first to create the compiler? The potential for contribution is equal from both sexes. The slanted distribution comes from cultural pressures, not innate talent, nor its absence. Cultures are changeable. If you can stomach talking at walls often enough.

kyberias 14y ago

I don't understand this and I think I ultimately disagree with you deeply. Women clearly are not that interested in computing per se. There are other fields that "advance our prosperity" where the situation is the other way around. That it would somehow make the world a better place if we force an artificial ratio of genders in all fields, is incorrect.

phaylon 14y ago
You say women aren't interested in computing per se. Can you elaborate on what you believe the reasons for this to be?
- kyberias 14y ago
  I don't know the reason and I don't care to guess. The same applies to sciences as well. It's certainly not limited to CS or IT.
  - phaylon 14y ago
    I agree, it's a problem of a larger scope. But do you think it has to be like that because of biology or any such reason, or do you think it's a result of historical and social factors? Some people think it might be worth to sacrifice a little so things might get a bit better in the long run, and that every small step counts to be welcoming to anyone. Edit: Note that I ask for either or in the first paragraph because I believe the latter would be a more easily fixable scenario than the former.
    - kyberias 14y ago
      > But do you think it has to be like that because of biology or any such reason, or do you think it's a result of historical and social factors? I _think_ it's both. Certainly it is plausible that female and male brains are wired at least slightly differently. But there must be some social factors is play as well.
danilocampos 14y ago
> Women clearly are not that interested in computing per se. Clearly to whom, sir? Not to me. Many of the women I know are interested in computing. The ones who've made a career in tech continually lament to me the attitude you've just demonstrated.
- kyberias 14y ago
  Look, I don't think I personally have any 'attitude' here. Girls like to be doctors or biologists, rather than staring at the screen for 8 hours a day. Perhaps boys have higher frequency of introvert temperament traits. I don't know.
  - danilocampos 14y ago
    > Girls like to be doctors or biologists, rather than staring at the screen for 8 hours a day. > Look, I don't think I personally have any 'attitude' here. Wooooooow.
- thedelimiter 14y ago
  They may wish more women were like them... but the data doesn't support your claim women want to be in Tech. If you do a Meyers-Briggs profiling of the female population compared to the male population, you will find that there are many more NT types (analytical thinking) among the males. Those types are much more inclined to find a career in engineering rewarding. I remember someone posting on Hacker News how a woman said "I could never do your job. Sitting in front of a computer all day being antisocial... I'd rather die." Of course people who live in a world of ideas like engineers do not see it that way. Software development is like solving interesting puzzles all day long. You have to come to terms with the fact that most of the population, not just females, is not like you. NT types are just 12% of the population. I think around 25% of that 12% are females. Now of course that means there are females who exist that would enjoy a career in engineering, but the balance is definitely not 50-50.

blindhippo 14y ago

No, it really isn't the problem at all - you are clearly misunderstanding me. It is no one's job to encourage any gender specifically to join any specific discipline. Women offer nothing over men when it comes to engineering discipines, and men offer nothing over women - they are EQUAL. Therefore focussing on gender as an attribute is pointless. Any policy or approach that trys to encourage women specifically to join our disciline is unethical and sexist by it's very definition. This is what I'm talking about in relation to the article. The proposed solution is wrong and pointless to pursue - should we add a woman to every tech panel even if she has no business being on that panel intellectually? Adding a "woman's voice" would add nothing, solve nothing and merely perpetuate pointless gender wars.

danilocampos 14y ago
> when it comes to engineering discipines, and men offer nothing over women - they are EQUAL. Agreed completely. And yet here we are with our sausage party. What a shame to have half our potential minds excluded for reasons we're all just too culturally lazy to examine or fix.

dennisgorelik 14y ago

Actually 99+% of the population isn't participating in any given field. So what? That's called specialization. If women are better at something than men - let them focus in that field -- no need to forcefully mixing genders.

danilocampos 14y ago
If men are just... "better" at computers than women, why was Grace Hopper first to create the compiler? The potential for contribution is equal from both sexes. The slanted distribution comes from cultural pressures, not innate talent, nor its absence. Cultures are changeable. If you can stomach talking at walls often enough.