5 ms·

I thought these "very intelligent" Chinese students wanted to know how to start businesses. Then I read this line: "How can I get that job? How can I get a hig

by Rod 18y ago

I thought these "very intelligent" Chinese students wanted to know how to start businesses. Then I read this line: "How can I get that job? How can I get a high-paying job in investment banking now?" How disappointing. It seems that these "very, very goal-directed" dudes are more interested in a cushy job at some shiny office than in doing new things, cool things.

davi 18y ago
I didn't get that they wanted a "cushy job in a shiny office". I got that they wanted access to positions that would give them a reasonable chance of making tens of millions per year.
katz 18y ago
This entrepreneurship attitude differs from country to country. In many socialist countries people like jobs in the government - it is cushy, extremely stable and offers excellent benefits. In other societies risk taking are discouraged (through various means). You should also take into account the difficulty of starting a business when you do not have access to capital. The USA is one of the few countries that almost seems to reward risk taking and is not over-regulated (thereby cancelling out small companies). This is fairly unique and is probably a part of what make the USA great.
- jhancock 18y ago
  China is right now an excellent place for entrepreneurs, especially young, local ones. What is a _real_ barrier for these students is expectation and prestige. They just finished at the most prestigious schools in China. The only thing their families will accept is a great salary from a well know company. The good news is this isn't hurting entrepreneurship in China. There are far too many smart young Chinese that do not have these outsized expectations...and maybe more important have nowhere to turn but to start something themselves. Maybe another way to summarize this article is "Wharton profs' only interactions with Chinese students is at the top .0001% of the class."
chiffonade 18y ago
Trust me, there's no shortage of entrepreneurialism in China. Insert something about sufficient sample size and selection bias here. Is there something hard wired in Americans' (specifically white Americans') brains that assume that anything they read about a few Chinese people automatically apply to the entire country?
- Rod 18y ago
  Please read my comment again and tell me where I generalized to all Chinese. The article's author claimed that the guys were very "bright", and I was expecting him to write on their entrepreneurial spirit... and, lo and behold, all they wanted was a safe status job that pays well. So predictable. So boring. I said nothing on the other 1+ billion Chinese. I did not comment on the entrepreneuralism (or lack thereof) in China... PS: Though you guessed right that I am a white male, I must say that I am not American.
- megaduck 18y ago
  China has well over a billion people. You'll find a lot of ANYTHING in China, including entrepreneurialism. However, in my experience, most Chinese don't believe that starting a business is the best way to wealth. Of course, I'm a white American (that happens to live in China). Perhaps you have some insights that I'm lacking.
  - mattm 18y ago
    You're right. I've met many Chinese people who think the way to wealth is to get a cushy government position with some kind of power over others so you can get bribes or to be a purchaser for a company due to a similar reason.
- jhancock 18y ago
  I don't agree with your line "specifically white Americans". I'm a white American and have lived in Shanghai 9 years. Of all the various types I see coming into Shanghai, the type that seems to have a very hard time assimilating is the "ABC". The American Born Chinese. This is a multi-faceted problem. But to be sure, there are many white Americans that "get it" and assimilate quite well. Your point about sample size and selection bias is right on. This is the real take away from the article.
tokenadult 18y ago
One of the most striking things to me about my two three-year stays in Taiwan (in the '80s and around the turn of the last century) is how much more entrepreneurial I became just by living there. The Taiwanese have a proverb, "Better to be the head of a chicken than the tail of a buffalo," and they strongly value being business owners rather than employees of large organizations. In the 1980s, the development pattern of Taiwan and Korea, otherwise rather comparable countries, was quite different because most Taiwanese worked in small, family-owned enterprises while most Koreans worked in giant industrial conglomerates. Today, Taiwan's economy is HAMMERED by the worldwide recession, but I think the response will be to find more ways to do more entrepreneurial business formation, and Taiwan will be all right. China is in serious danger of unrest, by contrast, http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/02/27/business/AS-China-Economic-Jitters.php http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/02/27/business/AS-China-... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/4862517/China-summons-police-chiefs-to-crisis-meeting-over-unrest.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/4862517... unless some economic transformation happens so that urban college graduates and rural migrant workers can find more employment soon.
- megaduck 18y ago
  Gosh, that attitude couldn't be more different in Beijing. Here in the PRC, business owners and entrepreneurs are viewed with some suspicion, a holdover from the revolutionary days. For example, Li Ning was a national sports hero, and he really sullied his reputation by going into business and founding a big sports clothing brand. Folks just don't believe that you could get that successful honestly. The expectations of corruption are too high. Sure, people want money, but most believe that the only real way to get it is through some kind of graft or payoffs. Thus, the way to get wealthy is to get a high job in a large and established company or government organization, and put themselves in a position for the inevitable kickback. They may not paint it in those terms, but that's basically what those students were asking for. Now for the caveats: There is an AMAZING amount of entrepreneurial activity at the bottom of the food chain, and there is definitely an emerging entrepreneurial class. China's also a huge and diverse country, and there's definitely pockets of Silicon Valley-like activity. However, culturally they're swimming upstream. Frankly, I fear for the economic future of China unless they kickstart some more private business activity (particularly startups). The majority of economic activity here is in massive sluggish state owned enterprises, and that's a recipe for disaster if this economic downturn is long and nasty.

by Rod 18y ago

davi 18y ago

I didn't get that they wanted a "cushy job in a shiny office". I got that they wanted access to positions that would give them a reasonable chance of making tens of millions per year.

katz 18y ago

This entrepreneurship attitude differs from country to country. In many socialist countries people like jobs in the government - it is cushy, extremely stable and offers excellent benefits. In other societies risk taking are discouraged (through various means). You should also take into account the difficulty of starting a business when you do not have access to capital. The USA is one of the few countries that almost seems to reward risk taking and is not over-regulated (thereby cancelling out small companies). This is fairly unique and is probably a part of what make the USA great.

jhancock 18y ago
China is right now an excellent place for entrepreneurs, especially young, local ones. What is a _real_ barrier for these students is expectation and prestige. They just finished at the most prestigious schools in China. The only thing their families will accept is a great salary from a well know company. The good news is this isn't hurting entrepreneurship in China. There are far too many smart young Chinese that do not have these outsized expectations...and maybe more important have nowhere to turn but to start something themselves. Maybe another way to summarize this article is "Wharton profs' only interactions with Chinese students is at the top .0001% of the class."

chiffonade 18y ago

Trust me, there's no shortage of entrepreneurialism in China. Insert something about sufficient sample size and selection bias here. Is there something hard wired in Americans' (specifically white Americans') brains that assume that anything they read about a few Chinese people automatically apply to the entire country?

Rod 18y ago
Please read my comment again and tell me where I generalized to all Chinese. The article's author claimed that the guys were very "bright", and I was expecting him to write on their entrepreneurial spirit... and, lo and behold, all they wanted was a safe status job that pays well. So predictable. So boring. I said nothing on the other 1+ billion Chinese. I did not comment on the entrepreneuralism (or lack thereof) in China... PS: Though you guessed right that I am a white male, I must say that I am not American.
megaduck 18y ago
China has well over a billion people. You'll find a lot of ANYTHING in China, including entrepreneurialism. However, in my experience, most Chinese don't believe that starting a business is the best way to wealth. Of course, I'm a white American (that happens to live in China). Perhaps you have some insights that I'm lacking.
- mattm 18y ago
  You're right. I've met many Chinese people who think the way to wealth is to get a cushy government position with some kind of power over others so you can get bribes or to be a purchaser for a company due to a similar reason.
jhancock 18y ago
I don't agree with your line "specifically white Americans". I'm a white American and have lived in Shanghai 9 years. Of all the various types I see coming into Shanghai, the type that seems to have a very hard time assimilating is the "ABC". The American Born Chinese. This is a multi-faceted problem. But to be sure, there are many white Americans that "get it" and assimilate quite well. Your point about sample size and selection bias is right on. This is the real take away from the article.

tokenadult 18y ago

One of the most striking things to me about my two three-year stays in Taiwan (in the '80s and around the turn of the last century) is how much more entrepreneurial I became just by living there. The Taiwanese have a proverb, "Better to be the head of a chicken than the tail of a buffalo," and they strongly value being business owners rather than employees of large organizations. In the 1980s, the development pattern of Taiwan and Korea, otherwise rather comparable countries, was quite different because most Taiwanese worked in small, family-owned enterprises while most Koreans worked in giant industrial conglomerates. Today, Taiwan's economy is HAMMERED by the worldwide recession, but I think the response will be to find more ways to do more entrepreneurial business formation, and Taiwan will be all right. China is in serious danger of unrest, by contrast, http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/02/27/business/AS-China-Economic-Jitters.php http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/02/27/business/AS-China-... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/4862517/China-summons-police-chiefs-to-crisis-meeting-over-unrest.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/4862517... unless some economic transformation happens so that urban college graduates and rural migrant workers can find more employment soon.

megaduck 18y ago
Gosh, that attitude couldn't be more different in Beijing. Here in the PRC, business owners and entrepreneurs are viewed with some suspicion, a holdover from the revolutionary days. For example, Li Ning was a national sports hero, and he really sullied his reputation by going into business and founding a big sports clothing brand. Folks just don't believe that you could get that successful honestly. The expectations of corruption are too high. Sure, people want money, but most believe that the only real way to get it is through some kind of graft or payoffs. Thus, the way to get wealthy is to get a high job in a large and established company or government organization, and put themselves in a position for the inevitable kickback. They may not paint it in those terms, but that's basically what those students were asking for. Now for the caveats: There is an AMAZING amount of entrepreneurial activity at the bottom of the food chain, and there is definitely an emerging entrepreneurial class. China's also a huge and diverse country, and there's definitely pockets of Silicon Valley-like activity. However, culturally they're swimming upstream. Frankly, I fear for the economic future of China unless they kickstart some more private business activity (particularly startups). The majority of economic activity here is in massive sluggish state owned enterprises, and that's a recipe for disaster if this economic downturn is long and nasty.