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I suspect people who manufacture slot machines have retained legal counsel that tell them what they need to do to follow the local law. If he were growing mari

I suspect people who manufacture slot machines have retained legal counsel that tell them what they need to do to follow the local law. If he were growing marijuana and selling it to people where marijuana is legal, no one would have trouble understanding this concept: hire a lawyer very early on. He only got a lawyer after the cops descended on him, and then only crappy ones he found on the Internet. I don't know the specifics of the law, and you don't either. (I shouldn't have to say this, again, but I'm not saying there wasn't prosecutorial abuse here. Neither does this guy, because he hoped he could ignore the question.)

pyre 14y ago
Drugs are a bad analogy as production and mere possession are illegal. A better analogy: - Drugs are legal to possess, but the act of buying them is illegal (in the US). - This guy makes an e-commerce software package designed specifically for selling drugs. - This guy only sells the software to companies in Amsterdam. - He's arrested because one of the companies in Amsterdam is selling illegally to US citizens. - The government puts a gun to his head and tells him to hack into his customers' websites in a scene straight out of Operation Swordfish I doubt that a lawyer would have helped him with this though. Unless I read the article wrong, he was being prosecuted/threatened in New York state, but was operating in the state of Arizona. He may be in accordance with all local (Arizona) laws, but was arrested and shipped off to New York state for some reason.
- danielweber 14y ago
  Gambling, like drugs, is heavily regulated. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is, and this is well known by every American. You also wouldn't start a firearm company or a brewery or a boutique cigar manufacturing without hiring a lawyer. I don't know the law, and neither do you, and neither did this guy. If he had spent a few thousand of that $2.3 million on a lawyer he would be better informed and had someone on retainer. Maybe he would have found out some simple way to comply. Maybe he would have found out there was no way to comply. Maybe he would have found out that he was already completely complying and this is just your "Operation Swordfish" scenario. But, since Operation Swordfish has been brought up, I'm out.
  - pyre 14y ago
    I do agree that this guy should have had a lawyer, even just as a go-to person for stuff relating to the law. He was running a business, and not consulting a lawyer from time to time is probably a bad idea. For example, if he was ever sued, he would want to have a lawyer on speed-dial, rather than flipping through the Yellowpages trying to find a lawyer while under stress. My general thought is that it's quite possible that his lawyer would not have foreseen this turn of events. His lawyer probably would have referenced local, state, and Federal law on this, but could have easily not seen that another state would try to prosecute him for his clients offering online gambling to residents of that state. (I think it goes without saying that a lawyer probably would not have foreseen the government offering him a plea bargain to commit a Federal -- and international -- crime in order to plead guilty to a lesser charge)
tossacct 14y ago
"Marijuana" is not illegal. It is illegal to do certain things with marijuana. Possession is one of those things. Growing, distributing, selling, processing, all fall under the category of possession. It is not illegal to write about marijuana, sing songs about it, paint pictures of it, talk about it, or trade photographs of it. "Gambling" is not illegal. It is illegal to gamble in certain ways. One of those ways is when a gambling participant wins anything of tangible value greater than what they paid to play the game. This is why some children's arcades that give tickets for games of luck are legal, and some carnival games are legal. Your winnings are required by law be worth less than what you paid to play. Playing poker is not illegal, playing bingo is not illegal, playing slots is not illegal, playing blackjack is not illegal, guessing who will win the presidential election is not illegal, and guessing how much rain will fall next Tuesday is not illegal. Just don't gamble for tangible value while you do these things!

pyre 14y ago

Drugs are a bad analogy as production and mere possession are illegal. A better analogy: - Drugs are legal to possess, but the act of buying them is illegal (in the US). - This guy makes an e-commerce software package designed specifically for selling drugs. - This guy only sells the software to companies in Amsterdam. - He's arrested because one of the companies in Amsterdam is selling illegally to US citizens. - The government puts a gun to his head and tells him to hack into his customers' websites in a scene straight out of Operation Swordfish I doubt that a lawyer would have helped him with this though. Unless I read the article wrong, he was being prosecuted/threatened in New York state, but was operating in the state of Arizona. He may be in accordance with all local (Arizona) laws, but was arrested and shipped off to New York state for some reason.

danielweber 14y ago
Gambling, like drugs, is heavily regulated. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is, and this is well known by every American. You also wouldn't start a firearm company or a brewery or a boutique cigar manufacturing without hiring a lawyer. I don't know the law, and neither do you, and neither did this guy. If he had spent a few thousand of that $2.3 million on a lawyer he would be better informed and had someone on retainer. Maybe he would have found out some simple way to comply. Maybe he would have found out there was no way to comply. Maybe he would have found out that he was already completely complying and this is just your "Operation Swordfish" scenario. But, since Operation Swordfish has been brought up, I'm out.
- pyre 14y ago
  I do agree that this guy should have had a lawyer, even just as a go-to person for stuff relating to the law. He was running a business, and not consulting a lawyer from time to time is probably a bad idea. For example, if he was ever sued, he would want to have a lawyer on speed-dial, rather than flipping through the Yellowpages trying to find a lawyer while under stress. My general thought is that it's quite possible that his lawyer would not have foreseen this turn of events. His lawyer probably would have referenced local, state, and Federal law on this, but could have easily not seen that another state would try to prosecute him for his clients offering online gambling to residents of that state. (I think it goes without saying that a lawyer probably would not have foreseen the government offering him a plea bargain to commit a Federal -- and international -- crime in order to plead guilty to a lesser charge)

tossacct 14y ago

"Marijuana" is not illegal. It is illegal to do certain things with marijuana. Possession is one of those things. Growing, distributing, selling, processing, all fall under the category of possession. It is not illegal to write about marijuana, sing songs about it, paint pictures of it, talk about it, or trade photographs of it. "Gambling" is not illegal. It is illegal to gamble in certain ways. One of those ways is when a gambling participant wins anything of tangible value greater than what they paid to play the game. This is why some children's arcades that give tickets for games of luck are legal, and some carnival games are legal. Your winnings are required by law be worth less than what you paid to play. Playing poker is not illegal, playing bingo is not illegal, playing slots is not illegal, playing blackjack is not illegal, guessing who will win the presidential election is not illegal, and guessing how much rain will fall next Tuesday is not illegal. Just don't gamble for tangible value while you do these things!