4 ms·

I'm not nearly as excited for dockable PC/phone hybrids as I am for a phone running GNU free software. In fact I'm already looking to replace my perfectly usab

by drcube 14y ago

I'm not nearly as excited for dockable PC/phone hybrids as I am for a phone running GNU free software. In fact I'm already looking to replace my perfectly usable HTC phone for a Nexus so I can install the image Ubuntu is supposed to release in a few weeks. I stopped using Ubuntu on my laptop because there are better alternatives out there. But I think Ubuntu can really shine as a mobile OS, and it will almost certainly be better than Android or iOS for my purposes.

javert 14y ago
it will almost certainly be better than Android or iOS for my purposes Can you give specific examples? I'm genuinely curious.
- drcube 14y ago
  For one thing, we've got Unix "apps" that have been maintained for 30 years, like vim and emacs. So in my mind, the software ecosystem is much better, even before launch. Configurability is a huge plus for me. Could you imagine recompiling your phone's kernel? Configuring your phone with dotfiles? Serving webpages and email? Not everyone's cup of tea, and I hope there are more user-friendly options available, but having that power is enticing. I'm looking forward to better multitasking, and multiple user accounts. Also a more open hardware ecosystem, such as USB and HDMI ports, docks, chargers, USB keyboards, maybe a laptop "shell" I can insert my phone into? If we look at the "dockable PC" side of things, the developer tools are unparalleled. And of course free software. CyanogenMod is pretty great already, and Busybox too, but I think a GNU presence will only help. Maybe I drank too much of RMS's koolaid.
  - javert 14y ago
    I would love for my phone to be my primary computer, and just plug it into a mouse/keyboard/monitor whenever I need to do real work (the latter implies having full control of anythin I want to control, like I have now in Arch Linux). Other than that, I don't really see the use case (for me personally) for most of what you're saying. I mean, vi/emacs are not useful on the phone, because it doesn't have a real keyboard. Since it doesn't have a real keyboard, I can't do real things with it, so there is no need for a lot of customization (e.g. with dotfiles).
    - vy8vWJlco 14y ago
      A 5 dollar USB hub can be used as a dock, assuming the USB port can be a USB host (even the cheapest Android hardware usually can), and a hub lets you dock to a full-sized keyboard, mouse, and even external VGA/DVI.
  - jonursenbach 14y ago
    Recompiling your phone's kernel is nice, but what happens when you fuck something up and are unable to call 911?
    - javert 14y ago
      Depends. Could be a kernel panic, it could just freeze up, etc.
    - marshray 14y ago
      Natural selection pressure against kernel hackers?
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      I don't know, is this a significant issue for android developers right now?
    - vy8vWJlco 14y ago
      One more reason for a proper bootloader (to dual boot a preset working interface) and/or a basic recovery ROM (like old Macs) that can always place phone calls.
    - drcube 14y ago
      The same thing that happens when you screw up your laptop and find you can't email the cops. Don't rely on your "hacking phone" for emergencies, at least until you can verify it will work.
    - MrMember 14y ago
      I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it seems unlikely. What are the odds that I'd need to call 911 and: 1) I'm alone 2) I'm not near my car (I carry an old flip phone in the glove compartment for emergencies) 3) I've messed up my phone sufficiently enough that 911 doesn't work but most other things work fine
  - css771 14y ago
    > Configurability is a huge plus for me. Could you imagine recompiling your phone's kernel? Configuring your phone with dotfiles? Serving webpages and email? Not everyone's cup of tea, and I hope there are more user-friendly options available, but having that power is enticing. I'm looking forward to better multitasking, and multiple user accounts. Also a more open hardware ecosystem, such as USB and HDMI ports, docks, chargers, USB keyboards, maybe a laptop "shell" I can insert my phone into? FWIW, you can do all these on Android in some form or another.
mtgx 14y ago
We'll see about that. I mean will the manufacturers of Ubuntu phones and tablets open source their drivers? Seems pretty unlikely, although it would certainly be nice to see, and some of the chip makers have started making open source drivers for their chips lately. Will the concept of a locked bootloader ever exist on Ubuntu devices? I hope Mark never agrees to such a thing. Same with censorship/surveillance stuff built into their devices that get sold in China. I'd rather he didn't accept that business.
alimoeeny 14y ago
If you stopped using ubuntu on desktop because you had better alternatives, I predict you'll find better alternatives for your phone as well.
- drcube 14y ago
  Sure, eventually. But Ubuntu is blazing the trail here, and that counts for a lot. Right now, the Android is the only Linux "distro" (actually a completely different OS from regular GNU/Linux) that runs on phones. After Ubuntu, I can imagine a Debian phone, or an Arch phone, or even an LFS phone. But right now, I can't. (Unfortunately, I don't think Pat Volkerding can ever support a Slackware phone. So we'll see if I ever move away from Ubuntu on mobile. Right now that's all moot though because none of it exists yet.)

by drcube 14y ago

javert 14y ago

it will almost certainly be better than Android or iOS for my purposes Can you give specific examples? I'm genuinely curious.

drcube 14y ago
For one thing, we've got Unix "apps" that have been maintained for 30 years, like vim and emacs. So in my mind, the software ecosystem is much better, even before launch. Configurability is a huge plus for me. Could you imagine recompiling your phone's kernel? Configuring your phone with dotfiles? Serving webpages and email? Not everyone's cup of tea, and I hope there are more user-friendly options available, but having that power is enticing. I'm looking forward to better multitasking, and multiple user accounts. Also a more open hardware ecosystem, such as USB and HDMI ports, docks, chargers, USB keyboards, maybe a laptop "shell" I can insert my phone into? If we look at the "dockable PC" side of things, the developer tools are unparalleled. And of course free software. CyanogenMod is pretty great already, and Busybox too, but I think a GNU presence will only help. Maybe I drank too much of RMS's koolaid.
- javert 14y ago
  I would love for my phone to be my primary computer, and just plug it into a mouse/keyboard/monitor whenever I need to do real work (the latter implies having full control of anythin I want to control, like I have now in Arch Linux). Other than that, I don't really see the use case (for me personally) for most of what you're saying. I mean, vi/emacs are not useful on the phone, because it doesn't have a real keyboard. Since it doesn't have a real keyboard, I can't do real things with it, so there is no need for a lot of customization (e.g. with dotfiles).
  - vy8vWJlco 14y ago
    A 5 dollar USB hub can be used as a dock, assuming the USB port can be a USB host (even the cheapest Android hardware usually can), and a hub lets you dock to a full-sized keyboard, mouse, and even external VGA/DVI.
- jonursenbach 14y ago
  Recompiling your phone's kernel is nice, but what happens when you fuck something up and are unable to call 911?
  - javert 14y ago
    Depends. Could be a kernel panic, it could just freeze up, etc.
  - marshray 14y ago
    Natural selection pressure against kernel hackers?
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    I don't know, is this a significant issue for android developers right now?
  - vy8vWJlco 14y ago
    One more reason for a proper bootloader (to dual boot a preset working interface) and/or a basic recovery ROM (like old Macs) that can always place phone calls.
  - drcube 14y ago
    The same thing that happens when you screw up your laptop and find you can't email the cops. Don't rely on your "hacking phone" for emergencies, at least until you can verify it will work.
  - MrMember 14y ago
    I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it seems unlikely. What are the odds that I'd need to call 911 and: 1) I'm alone 2) I'm not near my car (I carry an old flip phone in the glove compartment for emergencies) 3) I've messed up my phone sufficiently enough that 911 doesn't work but most other things work fine
- css771 14y ago
  > Configurability is a huge plus for me. Could you imagine recompiling your phone's kernel? Configuring your phone with dotfiles? Serving webpages and email? Not everyone's cup of tea, and I hope there are more user-friendly options available, but having that power is enticing. I'm looking forward to better multitasking, and multiple user accounts. Also a more open hardware ecosystem, such as USB and HDMI ports, docks, chargers, USB keyboards, maybe a laptop "shell" I can insert my phone into? FWIW, you can do all these on Android in some form or another.

mtgx 14y ago

We'll see about that. I mean will the manufacturers of Ubuntu phones and tablets open source their drivers? Seems pretty unlikely, although it would certainly be nice to see, and some of the chip makers have started making open source drivers for their chips lately. Will the concept of a locked bootloader ever exist on Ubuntu devices? I hope Mark never agrees to such a thing. Same with censorship/surveillance stuff built into their devices that get sold in China. I'd rather he didn't accept that business.

alimoeeny 14y ago

If you stopped using ubuntu on desktop because you had better alternatives, I predict you'll find better alternatives for your phone as well.

drcube 14y ago
Sure, eventually. But Ubuntu is blazing the trail here, and that counts for a lot. Right now, the Android is the only Linux "distro" (actually a completely different OS from regular GNU/Linux) that runs on phones. After Ubuntu, I can imagine a Debian phone, or an Arch phone, or even an LFS phone. But right now, I can't. (Unfortunately, I don't think Pat Volkerding can ever support a Slackware phone. So we'll see if I ever move away from Ubuntu on mobile. Right now that's all moot though because none of it exists yet.)