5 ms·

At the risk of getting modded to oblivion again, I'll say it again: we need to change our immigration policies to encourage high-skill immigration from high-IQ

by thras 18y ago

At the risk of getting modded to oblivion again, I'll say it again: we need to change our immigration policies to encourage high-skill immigration from high-IQ countries, and discourage low-skill immigration from low-IQ countries. We don't need more yard-workers -- they don't contribute much to GDP, suck up a lot of social services (tax dollars), and even their grand-children have trouble graduating high school. Build a fence across the Mexican border (it's cheap, and it worked for Israel despite the naysaying) and require high-level skills for every immigrant coming in after tomorrow.

ajju 18y ago
There are High-IQ countries? Must be the water! </sarcasm>
- thras 18y ago
  I'm confused. Are you claiming that the populations of all countries score the same on IQ tests? Are you saying that it's all explained by culture and that all that culture goes away when someone immigrates? Do you believe in creationism? What? While I'm sure that your conviction is sincere, I doubt it's based on any actual evidence. Instead it's an expression of how you'd like the world to be.
  - critic 18y ago
    I think if you used words like "cultures that do not value education", you wouldn't come off as a racist/IQist as much.
    - thras 18y ago
      Okay, sure. But then I'd have to think of an explanation for why adopted Asian-Americans do just as well (or better) academically than Asian-Americans raised by their own parents. Culture can't explain that. Maybe you could help me out?
      - critic 18y ago
        Maybe they mingle with other Asians in school? In any case, it would be interesting to see the study you are referring to.
        thras 18y ago
        Sure, here's a reference: http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&uid=2004-20519-016 http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&#38...
      - menloparkbum 18y ago
        Maybe you could help me out? Sure, there are plenty of other forums where people encourage your sort of discussion. Go away.
      - andreyf 18y ago
        You're looking to compare the psychology of adopted Asian-Americans and un-adopted Asian-Americans? This is definitely a place where correlation can be a million things other than causation. I'm no social scientist, but two things come to mind right away: Consider the financial situation of a household which adopts children - adoption is a very expensive and rigorous process, so adopted children of any nationality are going to be in a family which is financially secure and meets some kind of standard psychologically and legally. Not so for many Asian immigrants - I would imagine that on average, Asian immigrants aren't as well off as foster parents. Culturally, their environment will be quite different. Cultural identities also come into play - adopted or not, Asian children will identify themselves as "Asian", just as Jewish children identify themselves as "Jewish", Russian children will identify themselves as "Russian", and African American children identify themselves as "Black".
        thras 18y ago
        Okay, you have a hypothesis. It seems a little unlikely, but I agree that it could be true. Now, let's get to the proof side of things. What evidence makes you think this is a good explanation for the range of phenomena that you see? What else does it explain? Why can we discount other explanations, etc.
  - ajju 18y ago
    I am saying that considering the average IQ of a country in deciding how difficult it should be for an individual (from that country) to get a visa would be stupid even if IQ was a good determinant of the value an individual brings to the country of his residence.
    - thras 18y ago
      I think that's an absolutely fair comment (as opposed to your "must be the water" brush-off). Now, if you'd also be willing to end chain-migration, I would be all for your proposal as the best solution.
  - sho 18y ago
    "I'm confused." You got that part right, at least.
    - queensnake 18y ago
      From the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is an idiotic thing to say; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." "
queensnake 18y ago
But the border with Mexico is huuuge. Also, this article is about Indians & Chinese. Are they high or low IQ? My understanding of the racist consensus is that that of the Chinese is at least as high as American whites; Indians, it's more mixed or unknown. What was your angle, that the US should make it easier, /for the better educated/?
- thras 18y ago
  Sure, education is a fairly good indicator of IQ. Could you care to explain what you mean by "racist consensus"? Why don't you explain to me what right-thinking people believe about the genetics of intelligence.
Fuca 18y ago
You dont need a fence. The problem is not crossing, it is the hiring of illegal immigrants

by thras 18y ago

ajju 18y ago

There are High-IQ countries? Must be the water! </sarcasm>

thras 18y ago
I'm confused. Are you claiming that the populations of all countries score the same on IQ tests? Are you saying that it's all explained by culture and that all that culture goes away when someone immigrates? Do you believe in creationism? What? While I'm sure that your conviction is sincere, I doubt it's based on any actual evidence. Instead it's an expression of how you'd like the world to be.
- critic 18y ago
  I think if you used words like "cultures that do not value education", you wouldn't come off as a racist/IQist as much.
  - thras 18y ago
    Okay, sure. But then I'd have to think of an explanation for why adopted Asian-Americans do just as well (or better) academically than Asian-Americans raised by their own parents. Culture can't explain that. Maybe you could help me out?
    - critic 18y ago
      Maybe they mingle with other Asians in school? In any case, it would be interesting to see the study you are referring to.
      - thras 18y ago
        Sure, here's a reference: http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&uid=2004-20519-016 http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&#38...
    - menloparkbum 18y ago
      Maybe you could help me out? Sure, there are plenty of other forums where people encourage your sort of discussion. Go away.
    - andreyf 18y ago
      You're looking to compare the psychology of adopted Asian-Americans and un-adopted Asian-Americans? This is definitely a place where correlation can be a million things other than causation. I'm no social scientist, but two things come to mind right away: Consider the financial situation of a household which adopts children - adoption is a very expensive and rigorous process, so adopted children of any nationality are going to be in a family which is financially secure and meets some kind of standard psychologically and legally. Not so for many Asian immigrants - I would imagine that on average, Asian immigrants aren't as well off as foster parents. Culturally, their environment will be quite different. Cultural identities also come into play - adopted or not, Asian children will identify themselves as "Asian", just as Jewish children identify themselves as "Jewish", Russian children will identify themselves as "Russian", and African American children identify themselves as "Black".
      - thras 18y ago
        Okay, you have a hypothesis. It seems a little unlikely, but I agree that it could be true. Now, let's get to the proof side of things. What evidence makes you think this is a good explanation for the range of phenomena that you see? What else does it explain? Why can we discount other explanations, etc.
- ajju 18y ago
  I am saying that considering the average IQ of a country in deciding how difficult it should be for an individual (from that country) to get a visa would be stupid even if IQ was a good determinant of the value an individual brings to the country of his residence.
  - thras 18y ago
    I think that's an absolutely fair comment (as opposed to your "must be the water" brush-off). Now, if you'd also be willing to end chain-migration, I would be all for your proposal as the best solution.
- sho 18y ago
  "I'm confused." You got that part right, at least.
  - queensnake 18y ago
    From the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is an idiotic thing to say; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." "

queensnake 18y ago

But the border with Mexico is huuuge. Also, this article is about Indians & Chinese. Are they high or low IQ? My understanding of the racist consensus is that that of the Chinese is at least as high as American whites; Indians, it's more mixed or unknown. What was your angle, that the US should make it easier, /for the better educated/?

thras 18y ago
Sure, education is a fairly good indicator of IQ. Could you care to explain what you mean by "racist consensus"? Why don't you explain to me what right-thinking people believe about the genetics of intelligence.

Fuca 18y ago

You dont need a fence. The problem is not crossing, it is the hiring of illegal immigrants