4 ms·

I'm already thinking it's too late to prevent the US (and most of the Western World) from becoming an Orwellian dystopia. The US is already more corrupt than S

by gasull 14y ago

I'm already thinking it's too late to prevent the US (and most of the Western World) from becoming an Orwellian dystopia. The US is already more corrupt than Singapore, a country with no democracy: http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results So every year we have more corruption, less freedom, more taxes and more IP trolling. Can someone convince me that the pendulum is going to swing back?

beedogs 14y ago
Not without an overwhelming amount of capital (both human and financial) losses, I'm afraid.
saraid216 14y ago
I doubt it. American cynicism pretty much makes it impossible. If you can't bring hope to the table, you put a double burden on someone else. Not sure why you think Singapore is not a democracy, though.
- jmspring 14y ago
  Call me a pessimist, but the lemming nature to following the reactionary rules of the TSA makes me believe the person you responded to is correct.
  - saraid216 14y ago
    Well, yeah. It's exactly the lemming nature that is unwilling to try for something better. You're following it; I'm following it. The difference between us isn't that one's a cynic and one's not. The difference is that I know how much of a complete failure I am for not pushing back hard enough. You guys are my justification for saying, "Stop trying. It's not worth it." So thanks. I've been thinking I'll try out the whole happiness thing for a bit this year. See how that goes.
- gasull 14y ago
  > Not sure why you think Singapore is not a democracy, though. It's a an "hybrid regime", "partly free": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Government_and_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Government_and_polit... Maybe that's what the US is too already.
  - saraid216 14y ago
    > Maybe that's what the US is too already. Well, yes. Given that the reason that Singapore scores poorly is due to low pluralism, low political participation, and a weak press. It's a democracy by the merits that most people prefer: legislators and executives are elected, there's a rule of law, etc. It's not a democracy in the same ways the US and virtually all non-Scandinavian countries aren't: too much authoritarianism, too little citizen participation, etc. The difference is in degree. http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy_Index_2010_web.pdf http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy_Index_2010_web.pdf (I didn't bother checking if 2011 would work; I expect Wikipedia would have updated it if it were upgraded to a flawed democracy.) http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2012/singapore http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2012/singap... http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2012/singapore http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2012/singap...
    - sneak 14y ago
      Without a free press, elections are meaningless.
      - saraid216 14y ago
        That's not actually true.
eru 14y ago
This just goes to show that democracy and transparency / non-corruption do not march in lockstep. (By the way, I just moved to Singapore from Britain. It's nice here.)

by gasull 14y ago

beedogs 14y ago

Not without an overwhelming amount of capital (both human and financial) losses, I'm afraid.

saraid216 14y ago

I doubt it. American cynicism pretty much makes it impossible. If you can't bring hope to the table, you put a double burden on someone else. Not sure why you think Singapore is not a democracy, though.

jmspring 14y ago
Call me a pessimist, but the lemming nature to following the reactionary rules of the TSA makes me believe the person you responded to is correct.
- saraid216 14y ago
  Well, yeah. It's exactly the lemming nature that is unwilling to try for something better. You're following it; I'm following it. The difference between us isn't that one's a cynic and one's not. The difference is that I know how much of a complete failure I am for not pushing back hard enough. You guys are my justification for saying, "Stop trying. It's not worth it." So thanks. I've been thinking I'll try out the whole happiness thing for a bit this year. See how that goes.
gasull 14y ago
> Not sure why you think Singapore is not a democracy, though. It's a an "hybrid regime", "partly free": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Government_and_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Government_and_polit... Maybe that's what the US is too already.
- saraid216 14y ago
  > Maybe that's what the US is too already. Well, yes. Given that the reason that Singapore scores poorly is due to low pluralism, low political participation, and a weak press. It's a democracy by the merits that most people prefer: legislators and executives are elected, there's a rule of law, etc. It's not a democracy in the same ways the US and virtually all non-Scandinavian countries aren't: too much authoritarianism, too little citizen participation, etc. The difference is in degree. http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy_Index_2010_web.pdf http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy_Index_2010_web.pdf (I didn't bother checking if 2011 would work; I expect Wikipedia would have updated it if it were upgraded to a flawed democracy.) http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2012/singapore http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2012/singap... http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2012/singapore http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2012/singap...
  - sneak 14y ago
    Without a free press, elections are meaningless.
    - saraid216 14y ago
      That's not actually true.

eru 14y ago

This just goes to show that democracy and transparency / non-corruption do not march in lockstep. (By the way, I just moved to Singapore from Britain. It's nice here.)