5 ms·

I am pissed off with domain leechers

13 points by elmargasimov 14y ago

Hey everyone, I want to give you a bit of information on why this is so important to new start-ups, and how this issue personally affected me. I am sure you have also come across this problem many times. Three months ago I purchased a domain name for a startup venture. I have created a launch page, made business cards, created a logo; I have already accumulated a lot of signups in 3 weeks time and done a bit of marketing. I even have a few customers already. Today I received a totally random email from a guy who is the owner of a very similar domain name. He has sent me a cease and desist letter, because apparently he owns the trademark. I have double-checked this on the USPTO website and everything seems legit. However what estranges me is the fact that he has not setup a business. He bought the domain in 2010 to setup a company and I believe he quit before he launched. Now he made me an offer to sell the trademark and the domain name, or else desist from using the name. I did not ask him how much he wants for this, because I am sure it will be some crazy 6-digit figure that I will not be able to afford. Now I have to change my business name. I am lucky that my startup is still new and I haven't spent a fortune on marketing. Imagine if this was a year down the line... Many founders don't have the flexibility to change names, so they have to pay up. So dear people from HN, could we please spread out the message on why this is so wrong! Every single time I go to a domain registrar, I can't use 90% of the names, because these domain leechers bought everything to make a profit.

rexreed 14y ago
You aren't in jeopardy here. Trademarks aren't like patents -- you can clearly have companies with the same name as long as the use is not confusingly similar for similar products and/or services sold in the same class: * Delta Airlines * Delta Faucets * Delta Delta Delta Sorority Which one has rights to the domain delta.com? They all do. But only one has it. And the others can't sue. Just because you have a "similar" domain name doesn't mean you are in practice infringing on a trademark. And the definition of trademark means you have to actually use the mark in commerce. If he's not using the mark in commerce, you're not violating a trademark. In fact, you don't even need to register a trademark to have common law rights. Don't give up so easily. Talk to a lawyer - they'll consult you for free. Just tell him to bugger off. Read here: "It should be noted that trademark rights generally arise out of the use of, or to maintain exclusive rights over, that sign in relation to certain products or services, assuming there are no other trademark objections." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark "In fact all trademark law and rights are based on the use of your trademark, not just when you register it (if you choose to do so), but also on an ongoing basis--in fact 6 years after you get federally registered you must swear you're still using it in commerce and then 4 years after that and then every 10 years thereafter you must swear to it again (there are minor exceptions but you don't want to go there)." [2] http://www.idearights.com/trdmrk.htm http://www.idearights.com/trdmrk.htm Talk to someone who knows what they are doing and don't be such an easy push over ;) I say that in kindness.
- coryl 14y ago
  Check out http://www.nissan.com http://www.nissan.com - crazy that it still doesn't have a useful home.
  - rexreed 14y ago
    The same guy owns http://www.digest.com http://www.digest.com -- it's nuts that he hasn't sold them.
    - elmargasimov 14y ago
      That domain is worth at least 4 goldbars.
- rexreed 14y ago
  BTW, I am assuming you are referring to the domain "employify.com" and your domain "employify.me"? If so, it looks like they were in business (http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/employify-announces-new-website-200121.php http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/employify-anno...), but sounds like they are no longer in operation, and as such, they only have assets to sell or license, like their domain name. This also means probably no money for lawyers. That said, they still have rights to their trademark and even if it goes into disuse (abandonment), they can file with the trademark office a claim they will be reusing the mark in the future. Something to consider. But you might want to find a domain that you can own the .com for and also get good SEO, twitter, Facebook, and other handles for.
- tehwebguy 14y ago
  Just wanted to chime in and say YES, talk to a lawyer. Trademarks exist to protect consumers and businesses that have a reputation to keep up. It is not the same as copyright.
  - elmargasimov 14y ago
    Well, I have heard many people from legal backgrounds telling me that it doesn't matter if he has a trademark. However you should take into account, that he can cause you much headache in the future if you grow. I think it's better that I just launch under a different name.
mathewparet 14y ago
A similar incident happened with me also. They keep the domain even if they do not use, and try to sell it @ huge.
zeynalov 14y ago
Try to register a trademark with the name - "employify.me" p.s. nice to see someone from azerbaijan here
- elmargasimov 14y ago
  Hey Zeynalov :D Likewise!
Sujan 14y ago
I clearly get why you are upset and not happy. But > I did not ask him how much he wants for this, because I am sure it will be some crazy 6-digit figure that I will not be able to afford. may not be the best reaction. Ask him, it will cost you exactly nothing and maybe he just wants some change. If he wants an unreasonable amount of money, you can still change the name.
- chris_dcosta 14y ago
  Or you can negotiate. You are in the better position, simply put you can say "it's not making you any money, you've had it for ages, it costs you to maintain it, it's going nowhere, so why not accept my offer?" and name your price. Your argument/position is that you can always just change your name and walk away so you have nothing to lose. On the other hand he will lose by holding out for something that may never come round again. So he should take your money - whatever it is - it better than nothing. OK if he still won't budge, just change you name.

13 points by elmargasimov 14y ago

rexreed 14y ago

You aren't in jeopardy here. Trademarks aren't like patents -- you can clearly have companies with the same name as long as the use is not confusingly similar for similar products and/or services sold in the same class: * Delta Airlines * Delta Faucets * Delta Delta Delta Sorority Which one has rights to the domain delta.com? They all do. But only one has it. And the others can't sue. Just because you have a "similar" domain name doesn't mean you are in practice infringing on a trademark. And the definition of trademark means you have to actually use the mark in commerce. If he's not using the mark in commerce, you're not violating a trademark. In fact, you don't even need to register a trademark to have common law rights. Don't give up so easily. Talk to a lawyer - they'll consult you for free. Just tell him to bugger off. Read here: "It should be noted that trademark rights generally arise out of the use of, or to maintain exclusive rights over, that sign in relation to certain products or services, assuming there are no other trademark objections." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark "In fact all trademark law and rights are based on the use of your trademark, not just when you register it (if you choose to do so), but also on an ongoing basis--in fact 6 years after you get federally registered you must swear you're still using it in commerce and then 4 years after that and then every 10 years thereafter you must swear to it again (there are minor exceptions but you don't want to go there)." [2] http://www.idearights.com/trdmrk.htm http://www.idearights.com/trdmrk.htm Talk to someone who knows what they are doing and don't be such an easy push over ;) I say that in kindness.

coryl 14y ago
Check out http://www.nissan.com http://www.nissan.com - crazy that it still doesn't have a useful home.
- rexreed 14y ago
  The same guy owns http://www.digest.com http://www.digest.com -- it's nuts that he hasn't sold them.
  - elmargasimov 14y ago
    That domain is worth at least 4 goldbars.
rexreed 14y ago
BTW, I am assuming you are referring to the domain "employify.com" and your domain "employify.me"? If so, it looks like they were in business (http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/employify-announces-new-website-200121.php http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/employify-anno...), but sounds like they are no longer in operation, and as such, they only have assets to sell or license, like their domain name. This also means probably no money for lawyers. That said, they still have rights to their trademark and even if it goes into disuse (abandonment), they can file with the trademark office a claim they will be reusing the mark in the future. Something to consider. But you might want to find a domain that you can own the .com for and also get good SEO, twitter, Facebook, and other handles for.
tehwebguy 14y ago
Just wanted to chime in and say YES, talk to a lawyer. Trademarks exist to protect consumers and businesses that have a reputation to keep up. It is not the same as copyright.
- elmargasimov 14y ago
  Well, I have heard many people from legal backgrounds telling me that it doesn't matter if he has a trademark. However you should take into account, that he can cause you much headache in the future if you grow. I think it's better that I just launch under a different name.

mathewparet 14y ago

A similar incident happened with me also. They keep the domain even if they do not use, and try to sell it @ huge.

zeynalov 14y ago

Try to register a trademark with the name - "employify.me" p.s. nice to see someone from azerbaijan here

elmargasimov 14y ago
Hey Zeynalov :D Likewise!

Sujan 14y ago

I clearly get why you are upset and not happy. But > I did not ask him how much he wants for this, because I am sure it will be some crazy 6-digit figure that I will not be able to afford. may not be the best reaction. Ask him, it will cost you exactly nothing and maybe he just wants some change. If he wants an unreasonable amount of money, you can still change the name.

chris_dcosta 14y ago
Or you can negotiate. You are in the better position, simply put you can say "it's not making you any money, you've had it for ages, it costs you to maintain it, it's going nowhere, so why not accept my offer?" and name your price. Your argument/position is that you can always just change your name and walk away so you have nothing to lose. On the other hand he will lose by holding out for something that may never come round again. So he should take your money - whatever it is - it better than nothing. OK if he still won't budge, just change you name.