5 ms·

The phone looks like Win8 Metro, and the presenter is trying to be Steve Jobs. With the cpu's in phones already being phenomenally fast I see little to no value

by hnriot 14y ago

The phone looks like Win8 Metro, and the presenter is trying to be Steve Jobs. With the cpu's in phones already being phenomenally fast I see little to no value in removing the java layer. Currently this is vaporware, but should it appear on a phone sometime soon, I just don't see it gaining any marketshare beyond some of the hardcore OSS fans. Real people like an app ecosystem with their latest Angry Birds games and don't much care about any of the technical details. The "lock screen" is just weird, and the hyperbole spouted by the presenter was downright embarrassing. It all comes down to the apps. If Google Maps/Gmail/Chrome/Youtube etc all run on it then it might stand a chance, but I don't see further phone market fragmentation as being in anyone's interest. I do, however, use Ubuntu as my main desktop (2.6.38)

jblow 14y ago
Middlebrow dismissal. Believe that all of us working in video games want program execution on mobile devices to be as fast as possible. My brand-new desktop PC is not fast enough for what I want to do, so an Android phone running a bytecode interpreter is that much further. I also don't think you know what "vaporware" means. If it is actually running on physical hardware it's not vaporware; it is just not in consumer hands yet. (Since Engadget has played with it on a physical phone... it is known to be real.)
- wmf 14y ago
  Don't all mobile OSes now allow C/C++ for games? I know Android 2.3+ does. The difference appears to be that Android encourages Java for non-games while Ubuntu will use C++/Qt.
  - ttuominen 14y ago
    Yes, and QML (declarative syntax + Javascript logic) for UI-heavy parts or even complete apps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML
- rayiner 14y ago
  Android doesn't use a bytecode interpreter in any modern version.
  - ttuominen 14y ago
    Minor point, but technically a JIT compiler doesn't replace an interpreter. The latter is still there (written in assembly nowadays), and the VM has to trace hotspots and balance the cost of run time compiling vs. the cost of normal interpretation. Of course a JIT code cache helps to avoid the compilation overhead.
    - rayiner 14y ago
      To be even more nitpicky about it, a JIT compiler can replace an interpreter. There are compile-only JIT's, like Jikes RVM. But good point in this case, especially since Dalvik is a tracing JIT and relies on the interpreter more than a method JIT usually would.
kijin 14y ago
> Real people like an app ecosystem with their latest Angry Birds games Since Dalvik is open-source, perhaps they could tweak a few things to make Android apps run on Ubuntu, albeit a little slower? Out of the box compatibility with existing Android apps would be a huge gain for a mobile OS that is just trying to enter the market.
- wmf 14y ago
  If you're going to run Android apps, why not just use Android with a custom launcher and skin? Any sort of app compatibility layer is just an admission of defeat.
  - yakiv 14y ago
    It might be an admission of defeat that leads to victory. "DOS was popular because it had software from day one. And it had software because Tim Paterson had thought to include a CP/M compatibility feature in it . . ." (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html) Edit: And, as someone else said in this discussion, "developers, developers, developers".
fingerprinter 14y ago
How is it vaporware? There was a prototype on a phone already. There is code that Canonical said they would release soon (image for the Galaxy Nexus). What is missing is a (smart) carrier picking it up and running with it. I for one hope someone like Samsung release a phone with it. I'd buy this in a heartbeat.
ZeroGravitas 14y ago
Is it significant that the "apps" you list are either a browser or 3 Google properties that are better known as web apps, and primarily ad supported? I would have thought games would be the more difficult step since most people seem to use their "smart"phones as fashionable gameboys and you need a complicated system of in-app-purchases for getting kids to accidentally buy $100 dollars worth of "smurfberries" with their parents credit cards to finance the production of these games. And games has, traditionally, been something that Ubuntu and Desktop Linux hasn't had much success with.

by hnriot 14y ago

jblow 14y ago

Middlebrow dismissal. Believe that all of us working in video games want program execution on mobile devices to be as fast as possible. My brand-new desktop PC is not fast enough for what I want to do, so an Android phone running a bytecode interpreter is that much further. I also don't think you know what "vaporware" means. If it is actually running on physical hardware it's not vaporware; it is just not in consumer hands yet. (Since Engadget has played with it on a physical phone... it is known to be real.)

wmf 14y ago
Don't all mobile OSes now allow C/C++ for games? I know Android 2.3+ does. The difference appears to be that Android encourages Java for non-games while Ubuntu will use C++/Qt.
- ttuominen 14y ago
  Yes, and QML (declarative syntax + Javascript logic) for UI-heavy parts or even complete apps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML
rayiner 14y ago
Android doesn't use a bytecode interpreter in any modern version.
- ttuominen 14y ago
  Minor point, but technically a JIT compiler doesn't replace an interpreter. The latter is still there (written in assembly nowadays), and the VM has to trace hotspots and balance the cost of run time compiling vs. the cost of normal interpretation. Of course a JIT code cache helps to avoid the compilation overhead.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    To be even more nitpicky about it, a JIT compiler can replace an interpreter. There are compile-only JIT's, like Jikes RVM. But good point in this case, especially since Dalvik is a tracing JIT and relies on the interpreter more than a method JIT usually would.

kijin 14y ago

> Real people like an app ecosystem with their latest Angry Birds games Since Dalvik is open-source, perhaps they could tweak a few things to make Android apps run on Ubuntu, albeit a little slower? Out of the box compatibility with existing Android apps would be a huge gain for a mobile OS that is just trying to enter the market.

wmf 14y ago
If you're going to run Android apps, why not just use Android with a custom launcher and skin? Any sort of app compatibility layer is just an admission of defeat.
- yakiv 14y ago
  It might be an admission of defeat that leads to victory. "DOS was popular because it had software from day one. And it had software because Tim Paterson had thought to include a CP/M compatibility feature in it . . ." (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html) Edit: And, as someone else said in this discussion, "developers, developers, developers".

fingerprinter 14y ago

How is it vaporware? There was a prototype on a phone already. There is code that Canonical said they would release soon (image for the Galaxy Nexus). What is missing is a (smart) carrier picking it up and running with it. I for one hope someone like Samsung release a phone with it. I'd buy this in a heartbeat.

ZeroGravitas 14y ago

Is it significant that the "apps" you list are either a browser or 3 Google properties that are better known as web apps, and primarily ad supported? I would have thought games would be the more difficult step since most people seem to use their "smart"phones as fashionable gameboys and you need a complicated system of in-app-purchases for getting kids to accidentally buy $100 dollars worth of "smurfberries" with their parents credit cards to finance the production of these games. And games has, traditionally, been something that Ubuntu and Desktop Linux hasn't had much success with.