6 ms·

I won't believe it until they give me a ROM. It's my phone and I don't need the manufacturer's blessing. Put up or shut up, Canonical.

by drcube 14y ago

jiggy2011 14y ago
What?
- polshaw 14y ago
  He's saying ubuntu should quit waiting for a manufacturer to knock their door down, and allow developers /end users to put this on their own device. As someone waiting for ubuntu4android since 'forever', i agree. E: Mark S suggests that ROMs would be available for existing devices and not just through OEMs on the interview w/ engadget-- but isn't 100% explicit, and mentioned nothing about when to expect any builds.
  - BrianEatWorld 14y ago
    I agree. I've been all over Firefox OS, even though I can't get a legit device for another few months. The lack of an ability for me to test drive this now is kind of an announcement killer.
    - josteink 14y ago
      Seconding this. I'm very much for what Mozilla is trying to do with Firefox OS. I want to give it a spin. Heck, maybe even contribute. It's, after all, for a very good cause. But the fact that my Galaxy nexus is a "tier 3" phone which has no guarantees of even working, and that the "tier 1" phones are phones you cannot buy, my ability and willingness to wipe my working OS from my phone (which I need) for something unproven is very close to zero. Had they provided some good and working images for phones available today, chances that they would get more attention and recognition would be much, much higher. Not providing that has (IMO) been a mistake which has cost them, both publicity and potential contributors. And now Ubuntu seems to be making the same mistake for their phone-OS. It's a strategic mistake and it will cost them the chance to impact the market.
- drcube 14y ago
  "...there are no immediate plans for actual Ubuntu phones, and no carriers have been signed up yet ... although we're told that the OS will run on any new phone built for Android, should the manufacturer see merit in installing Ubuntu instead." from here: http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/ http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/ Looks like they updated the text, but still. The manufacturer doesn't install things on my phone, I do. Looks like they also mention a Nexus build in the coming weeks. When that happens I'll consider my challenge met. I'm just hoping something actually comes of this, unlike Ubuntu for Android which went nowhere. I'm also extremely annoyed by mentions of manufacturers here. I don't need Dell's blessing to install Ubuntu on my laptop, and I don't need HTC's blessing to install an alternate OS on my phone. So give me the software, already.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    If you have a locked bootloader sometimes you do , or at least a way to work around it. I don't get the "put up or shut up" part.
    - drcube 14y ago
      >f you have a locked bootloader sometimes you do , or at least a way to work around it. You still don't need their blessing, you just need to unlock it. It's your phone, not theirs. Period. >I don't get the "put up or shut up" part. It means I can go to their website, click "Get Ubuntu", and download it for my phone. Until it shows up here: http://www.ubuntu.com/download http://www.ubuntu.com/download It's vaporware.
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        That's assuming you have a method to unlock it, you can't always necessarily count on that. I can kind of understand why they don't want to release it until there is a reference implementation and the software is somewhere near done. They don't want to suffer the same problem they have done on the desktop where there are a load of device out there which are "kind of" supported and they get a bad rep because somebodies sound , wireless or whatever doesn't quite work as they expect and they have to field a load of support requests and people proclaiming that their OS is "too hard" or whatever.
richbradshaw 14y ago
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation already exists for the Nexus7 - as that's the hardware I have, I haven't looked around for others.
- wmf 14y ago
  To be clear, "Ubuntu" and "Ubuntu for Phones" are actually (very) different OSes. That link is for regular Ubuntu.
fluidcruft 14y ago
Yeah, yeah, let's bitch. But who's going to vouch for all the mandated stuff that has to work? Oops some requisite form/filing/testing was skipped? Who's going to stand up with a target on their back to be sued when someone dies after 911 doesn't work? Who's going to be responsible when some bug in your phone floods/knocks out your cell and denies 911 service to others? Does the law allow you to waive compliance with all of that stuff on equipment you don't own (towers)? I honestly don't know but good luck getting an answer other than "no" or "not sure" and a general default punting of liability/ability to waive policies to the next guy. Of course, magic hurdle number one is either getting a cell stack (GSM/CDMA) that you have rights to distribute, by either licensing (as Google does) or writing one yourself (as seems to be impossible given "open" standards). AFAIK there are no FOSS stacks.
- drcube 14y ago
  Nobody, because A)the cellular radio is on a separate chip and has nothing to do with the OS, and B)people already install ROMs on their phones today, without having to be regulatory compliant. All I'm asking for is an Ubuntu ROM, because while CyanogenMod is cool, GNU>Android.
  - fluidcruft 14y ago
    I agree completely about FOSS. But, based on my experience porting CyanogenMod to my old phone, things are not as compartmentalized as you would hope. For example, the user initiating a call to 911 and control of audio is not managed by the radio chip. The radio is not completely isolated. I have broken ROMs such that dialing 911 does not work. The phone I spent time hacking on had the radio attached over USB, and there were all sorts of magic AT chats that were managed by some proprietary library. Also, firmware on the radio was loaded into the radio by the OS. Anyway, my point is these things are not obviously separable, particularly at the holistic level of what's required by laws and regulations.
    - jrockway 14y ago
      Phones aren't required to make 911 calls. Consider the case of your MiFi access point. The Ubuntu phone could just be a smart access point. We shouldn't let artificial restrictions get in the way of Free Software. The pre-alpha-Github version does not need to be perfect. It just needs to lay the foundation for perfection to be added later.
dokem 14y ago
> Put up or shut up, Canonical Oh, how spoiled of you.

I won't believe it until they give me a ROM. It's my phone and I don't need the manufacturer's blessing. Put up or shut up, Canonical.

by drcube 14y ago

I won't believe it until they give me a ROM. It's my phone and I don't need the manufacturer's blessing. Put up or shut up, Canonical.

jiggy2011 14y ago

What?

polshaw 14y ago
He's saying ubuntu should quit waiting for a manufacturer to knock their door down, and allow developers /end users to put this on their own device. As someone waiting for ubuntu4android since 'forever', i agree. E: Mark S suggests that ROMs would be available for existing devices and not just through OEMs on the interview w/ engadget-- but isn't 100% explicit, and mentioned nothing about when to expect any builds.
- BrianEatWorld 14y ago
  I agree. I've been all over Firefox OS, even though I can't get a legit device for another few months. The lack of an ability for me to test drive this now is kind of an announcement killer.
  - josteink 14y ago
    Seconding this. I'm very much for what Mozilla is trying to do with Firefox OS. I want to give it a spin. Heck, maybe even contribute. It's, after all, for a very good cause. But the fact that my Galaxy nexus is a "tier 3" phone which has no guarantees of even working, and that the "tier 1" phones are phones you cannot buy, my ability and willingness to wipe my working OS from my phone (which I need) for something unproven is very close to zero. Had they provided some good and working images for phones available today, chances that they would get more attention and recognition would be much, much higher. Not providing that has (IMO) been a mistake which has cost them, both publicity and potential contributors. And now Ubuntu seems to be making the same mistake for their phone-OS. It's a strategic mistake and it will cost them the chance to impact the market.
drcube 14y ago
"...there are no immediate plans for actual Ubuntu phones, and no carriers have been signed up yet ... although we're told that the OS will run on any new phone built for Android, should the manufacturer see merit in installing Ubuntu instead." from here: http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/ http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/ Looks like they updated the text, but still. The manufacturer doesn't install things on my phone, I do. Looks like they also mention a Nexus build in the coming weeks. When that happens I'll consider my challenge met. I'm just hoping something actually comes of this, unlike Ubuntu for Android which went nowhere. I'm also extremely annoyed by mentions of manufacturers here. I don't need Dell's blessing to install Ubuntu on my laptop, and I don't need HTC's blessing to install an alternate OS on my phone. So give me the software, already.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  If you have a locked bootloader sometimes you do , or at least a way to work around it. I don't get the "put up or shut up" part.
  - drcube 14y ago
    >f you have a locked bootloader sometimes you do , or at least a way to work around it. You still don't need their blessing, you just need to unlock it. It's your phone, not theirs. Period. >I don't get the "put up or shut up" part. It means I can go to their website, click "Get Ubuntu", and download it for my phone. Until it shows up here: http://www.ubuntu.com/download http://www.ubuntu.com/download It's vaporware.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      That's assuming you have a method to unlock it, you can't always necessarily count on that. I can kind of understand why they don't want to release it until there is a reference implementation and the software is somewhere near done. They don't want to suffer the same problem they have done on the desktop where there are a load of device out there which are "kind of" supported and they get a bad rep because somebodies sound , wireless or whatever doesn't quite work as they expect and they have to field a load of support requests and people proclaiming that their OS is "too hard" or whatever.

richbradshaw 14y ago

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation already exists for the Nexus7 - as that's the hardware I have, I haven't looked around for others.

wmf 14y ago
To be clear, "Ubuntu" and "Ubuntu for Phones" are actually (very) different OSes. That link is for regular Ubuntu.

fluidcruft 14y ago

Yeah, yeah, let's bitch. But who's going to vouch for all the mandated stuff that has to work? Oops some requisite form/filing/testing was skipped? Who's going to stand up with a target on their back to be sued when someone dies after 911 doesn't work? Who's going to be responsible when some bug in your phone floods/knocks out your cell and denies 911 service to others? Does the law allow you to waive compliance with all of that stuff on equipment you don't own (towers)? I honestly don't know but good luck getting an answer other than "no" or "not sure" and a general default punting of liability/ability to waive policies to the next guy. Of course, magic hurdle number one is either getting a cell stack (GSM/CDMA) that you have rights to distribute, by either licensing (as Google does) or writing one yourself (as seems to be impossible given "open" standards). AFAIK there are no FOSS stacks.

drcube 14y ago
Nobody, because A)the cellular radio is on a separate chip and has nothing to do with the OS, and B)people already install ROMs on their phones today, without having to be regulatory compliant. All I'm asking for is an Ubuntu ROM, because while CyanogenMod is cool, GNU>Android.
- fluidcruft 14y ago
  I agree completely about FOSS. But, based on my experience porting CyanogenMod to my old phone, things are not as compartmentalized as you would hope. For example, the user initiating a call to 911 and control of audio is not managed by the radio chip. The radio is not completely isolated. I have broken ROMs such that dialing 911 does not work. The phone I spent time hacking on had the radio attached over USB, and there were all sorts of magic AT chats that were managed by some proprietary library. Also, firmware on the radio was loaded into the radio by the OS. Anyway, my point is these things are not obviously separable, particularly at the holistic level of what's required by laws and regulations.
  - jrockway 14y ago
    Phones aren't required to make 911 calls. Consider the case of your MiFi access point. The Ubuntu phone could just be a smart access point. We shouldn't let artificial restrictions get in the way of Free Software. The pre-alpha-Github version does not need to be perfect. It just needs to lay the foundation for perfection to be added later.

dokem 14y ago

> Put up or shut up, Canonical Oh, how spoiled of you.