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The US also turned away plenty of Jewish refugees. US and the UK refused to let Black Free French soldiers take part in the freeing of Paris since they wanted i

• gadders 14y ago
  The turning away of refugees by the UK and USA is bad as well. However, in the credit column, they have that whole "Defeating Nazi Germany" thing, which Switzerland does not.
  • esrauch 14y ago
    Except the US did not go to war against Nazi Germany to close the concentration camps, but for their own self interest. Every single nation acted in their self interest during WW2, and excluding the single outlier of the Holocaust, I haven't heard of any actions by any nation that were any more or less moral than that. Edit: My apologies, there were clearly plenty of other atrocities (eg Rape of Nanking if you consider that as part of WW2), but it is simply is not accurate to claim that Swiss were evil and the US were shining knights.
    • Mz 14y ago
      It is a common Americanism to talk like we singlehandedly defeated the Nazis, as if no other nation really contributed. I've discussed it with a few foreign friends. I am not in any shape to discuss it intelligently at the moment. Just thought I would note that this egomaniacal hero complex is one of this nation's foibles.
      • coderdude 14y ago
        I stopped talking to foreign friends about the United States long ago because, frankly, they don't know what they're talking about.
        • Mz 14y ago
          For some subjects, that often seems true. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4935567 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4935567 I don't have some across the board policy, perhaps because friends have been scarce of late. Since basically no one speaks to me, I don't currently have any need to make judgement calls of that sort. But my personal history suggests I am disinclined towards sweeping judgements of any sort. (shrug)
        • peterbraden 14y ago
          and thats why the US has such an insular mindset.
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• JohnsonB 14y ago
  >Its ridiculous to single out the Swiss as shameful in WW2, looking at norms 70 years ago would make all people "shameful" in some way. Are you actually equating all acts of 'shamefulness' during the 30s/40s at the same level? Your statement is tantamount to equating the actions of the allies with the axis, which is obviously ludicrous. The Swiss acted uncharacteristically selfishly and shamefully, even when compared to the record of the US. There's no need to jump to some half-baked defense of the Swiss, they deserve every bit of criticism leveled at them for their actions during WW2.
  • awakeasleep 14y ago
    I want to point out, bad behavior doesn't excuse other bad behavior, and I wish people wouldn't argue using that tenet. Also, the fact that something was a norm at one time doesn't excuse it either.
  • esrauch 14y ago
    I was only replying specifically to the two claims that you made. The first of which was exactly the same in the US (and possibly less justified; given it's size, the US could have absorbed Jewish refugees much more easily than the Swiss). The second was almost certainly done at a smaller scale by US banks, and is mostly just because the US didn't have the opportunity since fewer Holocaust victims had their Gold in American banks than Swiss banks. It's ridiculous to think that Americans were so much more moral than the Swiss just because they had fewer opportunities to steal. If there are other things that the Swiss did that were so shameful, I am interested in knowing.
    • JohnsonB 14y ago
      >I was only replying specifically to the two claims that you made. Well, that's not really true. Your post acted as a rebuff of the criticism of Switzerland, based on the logic that the US undertook similar actions. You said Switzerland "shouldn't be singled out" for criticism, yet OP wasn't singling Switzerland out but merely adding information to the topic at hand, which was Switzerland's record during WW2. So why even bring the US up? Nothing they did eliminates the need to remind people of Switzerland's abhorrent actions during WW2, and yet you still state this shouldn't be done ("Its ridiculous to single out the Swiss as shameful in WW2.") Secondly, the statement that I quoted of yours made quite a specific argument that you didn't mention most recently, regarding how Switzerland's actions should be viewed in perspective of the times. I argued it was fallacious to say that flattening the morality of the issue just because standards were lower during the war results in less of a need to discuss Switzerland's crimes during this time. You haven't attempted to refute this point, yet your latest post still made the statement that "I was only replying specifically to the two claims that you made [Swiss rejection of refugees and theft from Holocaust victims]" (which is aside from the fact that I am not the original author of the post you first responded to.) So it's still curious why you felt the need to rebuff gadders criticism of the Swiss during WW2 given that it was on topic, even acknowledging similar actions take by the US.