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> Most or all of which would not be helped by liberal attempts to emulate Europe. You mean the rest of the industrialized world, not just Europe. > high child

> Most or all of which would not be helped by liberal attempts to emulate Europe. You mean the rest of the industrialized world, not just Europe. > high child poverty is to be expected in a country that harbors many poor immigrants from Latin America. You mean unlike a country that harbours many poor immigrants from Northern Africa, the Middle East and Eastern Europe? > high rate of incarceration is largely to be blamed on the "War on Drugs" Yes, and it is the conservative right that most strongly favours continuing the War on Drugs. Those left of centre liberals you don't like generally favour ending the war on drugs and following a more - dare I say - European approach to legalization. (Sadly, Canada's Republican-lite Conservative government has taken a more American approach to the War on Drugs, establishing mandatory minimum sentences and other punitive measures that have already failed in the US.) > low rate of doctors is largely to be blamed on the fact that medicine is a guild That's true across all the industrialized countries, but the other countries are much better than the US at achieving a higher rate of doctors and much better overall health outcomes, despite spending only 40-70% of what the USA spends on health care - and running various incarnations of universal health coverage. > American liberals want a society where everybody gets whatever they demand That's a lazy straw man attack. American liberals, like liberals in other industrialized countries, want their country to value human rights, pay attention to evidence-based public policy and invest enough in public social and physical infrastructure to ensure everyone has an adequate standard of living and the opportunity to work hard and prosper. Ironically, the USA has among the worst levels of socioeconomic mobility in the OECD. Poor Americans are more trapped in their poverty than poor people in countries that do more to level the playing field so everyone has a fair chance of escaping poverty.

javert 14y ago
> despite spending only 40-70% of what the USA spends on health care Right. And if the USA tries to emulate Europe in healthcare more than we alreay do, we will end up wasting even more money. There is no solution to be had here through more regulation. > value human rights > ensure everyone has an adequate standard of living Contradiction. But providing a moral basis for individual rights requires understanding a complete philosophical system, which is out of the scope of an HN comment. > ensure everyone has an adequate standard of living and the opportunity to work hard and prosper You're asking something that may be outside the scope of reality. > Poor Americans are more trapped in their poverty As someone from a poor part of rural eastern North Carolina, all I can do is LOL at this, because it's utterly, utterly false. That is a complete myth. I mean, we already have free universal education, de jure through high school and de facto through college.
- RyanMcGreal 14y ago
  > if the USA tries to emulate Europe in healthcare more than we alreay do, we will end up wasting even more money. The evidence is that American health care costs would go down significantly, given the clear correlation across industrialized countries between the extent to which health care spending is private and the overall cost (either per capita or as a share of GDP). > Contradiction. It's not a contradition, the latter follows necessarily from the former. It's why nearly every industrialized country has converged on public health, public education, public health care, affordable housing, and so on. > But providing a moral basis for individual rights requires understanding a complete philosophical system, which is out of the scope of an HN comment. Or we can dispense with the 18th century a priori legerdemain and just recognize human rights as a self-evident basis for a fair, just and humane society. > You're asking something that may be outside the scope of reality. And yet the rest of the industrialized world does a much better job of it than the United States. > As someone from a poor part of rural eastern North Carolina, all I can do is LOL at this The plural of anecdote is not data.

javert 14y ago

> despite spending only 40-70% of what the USA spends on health care Right. And if the USA tries to emulate Europe in healthcare more than we alreay do, we will end up wasting even more money. There is no solution to be had here through more regulation. > value human rights > ensure everyone has an adequate standard of living Contradiction. But providing a moral basis for individual rights requires understanding a complete philosophical system, which is out of the scope of an HN comment. > ensure everyone has an adequate standard of living and the opportunity to work hard and prosper You're asking something that may be outside the scope of reality. > Poor Americans are more trapped in their poverty As someone from a poor part of rural eastern North Carolina, all I can do is LOL at this, because it's utterly, utterly false. That is a complete myth. I mean, we already have free universal education, de jure through high school and de facto through college.

RyanMcGreal 14y ago
> if the USA tries to emulate Europe in healthcare more than we alreay do, we will end up wasting even more money. The evidence is that American health care costs would go down significantly, given the clear correlation across industrialized countries between the extent to which health care spending is private and the overall cost (either per capita or as a share of GDP). > Contradiction. It's not a contradition, the latter follows necessarily from the former. It's why nearly every industrialized country has converged on public health, public education, public health care, affordable housing, and so on. > But providing a moral basis for individual rights requires understanding a complete philosophical system, which is out of the scope of an HN comment. Or we can dispense with the 18th century a priori legerdemain and just recognize human rights as a self-evident basis for a fair, just and humane society. > You're asking something that may be outside the scope of reality. And yet the rest of the industrialized world does a much better job of it than the United States. > As someone from a poor part of rural eastern North Carolina, all I can do is LOL at this The plural of anecdote is not data.