5 ms·

Have you ever been inside of a hardware store? Every hardware store I've ever been to has a section for metric. Our lab, for instance, keeps a supply of bolts

by blhack 14y ago

Have you ever been inside of a hardware store? Every hardware store I've ever been to has a section for metric. Our lab, for instance, keeps a supply of bolts, and as far as I remember /only/ has metric. Also every socket set I've ever used has a metric and standard set. Why would you care about road signs? And why would you care about a tape measure that is /only/ in metric? The second one seems kindof silly. The only thing I know of that isn't available commonly in metric sizes are machining tools like mills. As far as I know, machining is always done in "mils", or thousands of an inch.

ahlatimer 14y ago
Or if you happen to ask anyone who works on a vehicle that isn't from one of the American manufacturers. My Toyota used all metric, AFAIK, and all of my motorcycles have used metric. I can't say I've ever even used the standard set of tools that came with my toolset (which had both metric and standard).
- tadfisher 14y ago
  Toyota is weird, in that all of the nuts & bolts on their cars are metric, but their tolerances in the factory service manual are listed in thousandths of an inch. I did a double-take when I saw the deck flatness tolerance of ".002" for my car, for example.
- ars 14y ago
  My Ford car is all metric as well.
jacquesm 14y ago
> Have you ever been inside of a hardware store? I believe so. Maybe a couple of times. Or maybe I practically lived in one for a couple of years. Would this do for you? http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/trips/jansvisit/?g2_page=6 http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/trips/jansvisit/?g2_page=6 Yes, there is a section for metric in the hardware store. It's the bit at the back with about 1/2 the sizes missing and only the stuff that you don't need in stock. I've had a machine shop in Canada (which officially had metric) and it was quite hard to get metric stuff. So hard that in the end we standardized on Imperial. In the US it was way worse. Socket sets have standard and metric. Metric mostly for working on Japanese or European cars. But the most tools 'at hand' will be imperial. Maybe your experience is different but I've had plenty of bolts on my Japanese car wrecked by a shop putting imperial tools on them and plowing ahead. Works especially good if you use airtools, instant roundness. You care about road signs because they're a sign that you really are standardizing. If your road signs are still in Miles then you're not a 'metric' country. And you care about a tape measure only in metric because that's all you use in a metric country. Machine tools - of which I owned a small fortune worth of - have things called morse tapers for the various tool bits. Morse tapers are adapters that allow you to quickly switch bits, most of the tooling that fits them is in Imperial. Collets, the elements that hold tooling for a mill or a lathe are all in imperial sizes. Unless you order from a very large catalogue it is very difficult to get mills in metric, but that is much more frustrating is that it can even be hard to source drills in metric. Machining is done to thousands of an inch in the US. The rest of the world uses 1/100th of a mm for both turning and milling, and a series of fittings for more precise work. The good news is that the bigger bearing companies all do carry metric if you need it. And if they don't have it in stock it 's usually only a day away. Unless you've actually tried to design a somewhat complex chunk of machinery you might be given the impression that 'metric is easy'. In practice stuff like shafts, gears, supports and so on are all easier to source in Imperial than in Metric both in the US and in Canada too. You want to order in Imperial, just one moment while I get your order form the warehouse out back. You want to order in Metric. That's perfectly fine, we're a metric country after all. Would it suit you to pick your order up in early march, possibly the middle of april before it is complete?
- DannyBee 14y ago
  Outside of cars, roughly every power tool, piece of electronics, cabinet (35mm), etc needs metric sockets or hex keys. I have built plenty of complex machinery. It's actually significantly easier for me to source 50mm flywheels/pulleys, or v-belts, or whatever, than it is to try to get someone to give me reasonable tolerances on imperial. While it's true machining is done to thousandths of an inch in the US, most of those machining tools are using chucks/collets/etc whose sizes/TIR/etc is all actually metric. (IE the 1/2" chuck/collet/whatever is really machined to 12.7mm)
  - jacquesm 14y ago
    Good to see that the situation is improving. The more the US imports the more stuff will be in metric, it's unavoidable. But I'll believe it when the construction industry let's go of the foot and the inch. A 12.7 mm collet is not a metric collet. A metric collet would be a 12 or 13 mm.
    - DannyBee 14y ago
      My point was exactly that the construction industry and others already deals in metric whether they know it or not. Yes, they spec 2x4's, and 3/4" CDX sheathng, but every piece of sheathing they use is actually made to millimeter specs, not imperial specs. This was my point about the collet, too. It's true they collets are not meant to be holding metric sized end mills/etc, but the collet itself is milled using metric sizes. They are not milled to 0.50000, they are milled to 12.70mm.
      - jacquesm 14y ago
        Good. So that's the source of your confusion then. I'm glad we got that cleared up. Since the Inch is specified as 25.4 mm you can convert any measurement in Inches into an exact equivalent in metric. But that does not make it a metric size. Inches: 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1" etc and various measures in between (5/32nd for instance). Metric: 1mm, 2mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, etc. and various measures in between (5.5 mm for instance). So you buy your lumber in Imperial measures (apparently except for thickness), and the rest of the world buys theirs in meters (or mm). That's the difference between 'working in Imperial' and 'working in metric'.

by blhack 14y ago

ahlatimer 14y ago

Or if you happen to ask anyone who works on a vehicle that isn't from one of the American manufacturers. My Toyota used all metric, AFAIK, and all of my motorcycles have used metric. I can't say I've ever even used the standard set of tools that came with my toolset (which had both metric and standard).

tadfisher 14y ago
Toyota is weird, in that all of the nuts & bolts on their cars are metric, but their tolerances in the factory service manual are listed in thousandths of an inch. I did a double-take when I saw the deck flatness tolerance of ".002" for my car, for example.
ars 14y ago
My Ford car is all metric as well.

jacquesm 14y ago

> Have you ever been inside of a hardware store? I believe so. Maybe a couple of times. Or maybe I practically lived in one for a couple of years. Would this do for you? http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/trips/jansvisit/?g2_page=6 http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/trips/jansvisit/?g2_page=6 Yes, there is a section for metric in the hardware store. It's the bit at the back with about 1/2 the sizes missing and only the stuff that you don't need in stock. I've had a machine shop in Canada (which officially had metric) and it was quite hard to get metric stuff. So hard that in the end we standardized on Imperial. In the US it was way worse. Socket sets have standard and metric. Metric mostly for working on Japanese or European cars. But the most tools 'at hand' will be imperial. Maybe your experience is different but I've had plenty of bolts on my Japanese car wrecked by a shop putting imperial tools on them and plowing ahead. Works especially good if you use airtools, instant roundness. You care about road signs because they're a sign that you really are standardizing. If your road signs are still in Miles then you're not a 'metric' country. And you care about a tape measure only in metric because that's all you use in a metric country. Machine tools - of which I owned a small fortune worth of - have things called morse tapers for the various tool bits. Morse tapers are adapters that allow you to quickly switch bits, most of the tooling that fits them is in Imperial. Collets, the elements that hold tooling for a mill or a lathe are all in imperial sizes. Unless you order from a very large catalogue it is very difficult to get mills in metric, but that is much more frustrating is that it can even be hard to source drills in metric. Machining is done to thousands of an inch in the US. The rest of the world uses 1/100th of a mm for both turning and milling, and a series of fittings for more precise work. The good news is that the bigger bearing companies all do carry metric if you need it. And if they don't have it in stock it 's usually only a day away. Unless you've actually tried to design a somewhat complex chunk of machinery you might be given the impression that 'metric is easy'. In practice stuff like shafts, gears, supports and so on are all easier to source in Imperial than in Metric both in the US and in Canada too. You want to order in Imperial, just one moment while I get your order form the warehouse out back. You want to order in Metric. That's perfectly fine, we're a metric country after all. Would it suit you to pick your order up in early march, possibly the middle of april before it is complete?

DannyBee 14y ago
Outside of cars, roughly every power tool, piece of electronics, cabinet (35mm), etc needs metric sockets or hex keys. I have built plenty of complex machinery. It's actually significantly easier for me to source 50mm flywheels/pulleys, or v-belts, or whatever, than it is to try to get someone to give me reasonable tolerances on imperial. While it's true machining is done to thousandths of an inch in the US, most of those machining tools are using chucks/collets/etc whose sizes/TIR/etc is all actually metric. (IE the 1/2" chuck/collet/whatever is really machined to 12.7mm)
- jacquesm 14y ago
  Good to see that the situation is improving. The more the US imports the more stuff will be in metric, it's unavoidable. But I'll believe it when the construction industry let's go of the foot and the inch. A 12.7 mm collet is not a metric collet. A metric collet would be a 12 or 13 mm.
  - DannyBee 14y ago
    My point was exactly that the construction industry and others already deals in metric whether they know it or not. Yes, they spec 2x4's, and 3/4" CDX sheathng, but every piece of sheathing they use is actually made to millimeter specs, not imperial specs. This was my point about the collet, too. It's true they collets are not meant to be holding metric sized end mills/etc, but the collet itself is milled using metric sizes. They are not milled to 0.50000, they are milled to 12.70mm.
    - jacquesm 14y ago
      Good. So that's the source of your confusion then. I'm glad we got that cleared up. Since the Inch is specified as 25.4 mm you can convert any measurement in Inches into an exact equivalent in metric. But that does not make it a metric size. Inches: 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1" etc and various measures in between (5/32nd for instance). Metric: 1mm, 2mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, etc. and various measures in between (5.5 mm for instance). So you buy your lumber in Imperial measures (apparently except for thickness), and the rest of the world buys theirs in meters (or mm). That's the difference between 'working in Imperial' and 'working in metric'.