5 ms·

It's also worth to notice the way Swiss survived WWII. They sat on critical supply routes, and organized guerilla before anyone could invade, giving them an inc

It's also worth to notice the way Swiss survived WWII. They sat on critical supply routes, and organized guerilla before anyone could invade, giving them an incredibly strong bargaining position. Keeping bunkers actually works well with that. And they're not really wasted space — people use them as wine cellars, washing rooms or whatever else.

jacques_chester 14y ago
Well the other thing the Swiss have cultivated is their neutrality. From the neutrality and the natural fortress flows their long history banking. Historically the Powers would not think of invading Switzerland, because ... where else in Europe can you safely house your fortune? If you even hinted at it, you wouldn't be welcome. Similarly, in wartime, everyone needs strictly neutral parties to get a lot of the humdrum business of war done. Through Swiss front companies the Nazis could obtain critical war supplies (vanadium, I think it was); similarly the allies could obtain critical intelligence through the availability of Switzerland as a staging post into Austria and Germany.
- jacquesm 14y ago
  In the words of Max Petitpierre: "These credits and the deliveries of war material and other products [...] contributed to the war efforts of one of the belligerents. Not only had we abandonded integral neutrality, but - even worse - in so doing, we were as a rule deviating from the very notion of neutrality. "
  - jacques_chester 14y ago
    The problem with being truly neutral is that while you are a bastion against tyranny, you are also the refuge of scoundrels.
    - jacquesm 14y ago
      It wasn't quite that simple. Very interesting but very long reading: http://www.uek.ch/en/schlussbericht/synthesis/ueke.pdf http://www.uek.ch/en/schlussbericht/synthesis/ueke.pdf Almost 600 pages but if you have a spare bit of time and really interested you could do a lot worse than looking at this, it is one of the most candid introspective pieces about world war II.
- LaGrange 14y ago
  Of course, but Swiss were not the only country that declared neutrality. Netherlands did that both during World War 1 and 2. And both countries were strategically interesting. Thanks to both geography and effective deterrence Switzerland was able to enforce its neutrality, while Netherlands wasn't.
gadders 14y ago
I don't think their neutrality would have lasted very long had Hitler finished off the UK and USSR. They also turned away plenty of Jewish refugees, as well as secreting gold stolen from concentration camp victims. Their record during WWII is shameful.
- esrauch 14y ago
  The US also turned away plenty of Jewish refugees. US and the UK refused to let Black Free French soldiers take part in the freeing of Paris since they wanted it to be a "white victory". The US also put Japanese Americans in internment camps. Its ridiculous to single out the Swiss as shameful in WW2, looking at norms 70 years ago would make all people "shameful" in some way.
  - gadders 14y ago
    The turning away of refugees by the UK and USA is bad as well. However, in the credit column, they have that whole "Defeating Nazi Germany" thing, which Switzerland does not.
    - esrauch 14y ago
      Except the US did not go to war against Nazi Germany to close the concentration camps, but for their own self interest. Every single nation acted in their self interest during WW2, and excluding the single outlier of the Holocaust, I haven't heard of any actions by any nation that were any more or less moral than that. Edit: My apologies, there were clearly plenty of other atrocities (eg Rape of Nanking if you consider that as part of WW2), but it is simply is not accurate to claim that Swiss were evil and the US were shining knights.
      - Mz 14y ago
        It is a common Americanism to talk like we singlehandedly defeated the Nazis, as if no other nation really contributed. I've discussed it with a few foreign friends. I am not in any shape to discuss it intelligently at the moment. Just thought I would note that this egomaniacal hero complex is one of this nation's foibles.

jacques_chester 14y ago

Well the other thing the Swiss have cultivated is their neutrality. From the neutrality and the natural fortress flows their long history banking. Historically the Powers would not think of invading Switzerland, because ... where else in Europe can you safely house your fortune? If you even hinted at it, you wouldn't be welcome. Similarly, in wartime, everyone needs strictly neutral parties to get a lot of the humdrum business of war done. Through Swiss front companies the Nazis could obtain critical war supplies (vanadium, I think it was); similarly the allies could obtain critical intelligence through the availability of Switzerland as a staging post into Austria and Germany.

jacquesm 14y ago
In the words of Max Petitpierre: "These credits and the deliveries of war material and other products [...] contributed to the war efforts of one of the belligerents. Not only had we abandonded integral neutrality, but - even worse - in so doing, we were as a rule deviating from the very notion of neutrality. "
- jacques_chester 14y ago
  The problem with being truly neutral is that while you are a bastion against tyranny, you are also the refuge of scoundrels.
  - jacquesm 14y ago
    It wasn't quite that simple. Very interesting but very long reading: http://www.uek.ch/en/schlussbericht/synthesis/ueke.pdf http://www.uek.ch/en/schlussbericht/synthesis/ueke.pdf Almost 600 pages but if you have a spare bit of time and really interested you could do a lot worse than looking at this, it is one of the most candid introspective pieces about world war II.
LaGrange 14y ago
Of course, but Swiss were not the only country that declared neutrality. Netherlands did that both during World War 1 and 2. And both countries were strategically interesting. Thanks to both geography and effective deterrence Switzerland was able to enforce its neutrality, while Netherlands wasn't.

gadders 14y ago

I don't think their neutrality would have lasted very long had Hitler finished off the UK and USSR. They also turned away plenty of Jewish refugees, as well as secreting gold stolen from concentration camp victims. Their record during WWII is shameful.

esrauch 14y ago
The US also turned away plenty of Jewish refugees. US and the UK refused to let Black Free French soldiers take part in the freeing of Paris since they wanted it to be a "white victory". The US also put Japanese Americans in internment camps. Its ridiculous to single out the Swiss as shameful in WW2, looking at norms 70 years ago would make all people "shameful" in some way.
- gadders 14y ago
  The turning away of refugees by the UK and USA is bad as well. However, in the credit column, they have that whole "Defeating Nazi Germany" thing, which Switzerland does not.
  - esrauch 14y ago
    Except the US did not go to war against Nazi Germany to close the concentration camps, but for their own self interest. Every single nation acted in their self interest during WW2, and excluding the single outlier of the Holocaust, I haven't heard of any actions by any nation that were any more or less moral than that. Edit: My apologies, there were clearly plenty of other atrocities (eg Rape of Nanking if you consider that as part of WW2), but it is simply is not accurate to claim that Swiss were evil and the US were shining knights.
    - Mz 14y ago
      It is a common Americanism to talk like we singlehandedly defeated the Nazis, as if no other nation really contributed. I've discussed it with a few foreign friends. I am not in any shape to discuss it intelligently at the moment. Just thought I would note that this egomaniacal hero complex is one of this nation's foibles.