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"to meditate for any reason other than because it's the truth will eventually be self-defeating" Not sure I agree. You quote a zen master. The book I am curren

"to meditate for any reason other than because it's the truth will eventually be self-defeating" Not sure I agree. You quote a zen master. The book I am currently reading "The Three pillars of zen" gives much less judgmental advice. I'm not gonna type the whole thing up, but it basically states that there is no problem with people just going after the goal of increased concentration, a state they describe as: "this is more than the ability to concentrate in the usual sense of the word. It is a dynamic power which, once mobilized, enables us even in the most sudden and unexpected situations to act instantly. Those who have developed 'it' are no longer slaves to their passions." It does say that this "quality" recedes without practice, it's something you have to maintain by meditating every day, as opposed to the actual deep changes that come from seeking enlightenment. But it is perfectly fine for people to pursue meditation for benefits completely unrelated to spirituality or enlightenment. The quote and paraphrasing are all from the book and come from zen master Yasutani-roshu.

hosh 14y ago
@ramblerman, the more you practice, the more your practice and experience informs the advice. Written works like that take on much less meaning, as does the notion of pulling them out to support your reasoning. Based on my experience, "to meditate for any reason other than because its the truth" and "It is a dynamic power which, once mobilized, enables us even the most sudden and unexpected situations to act instantly" do not contradict each other and are one and the same. You become less and less a slave of your own impulses and reactions. You perceive the truth of those impulses. You cut your way free and can act like a child, spontaneously correct in the moment without spinning in your mind. But my experience doesn't mean anything to you. Leaning on it takes you away from your own experience of the present moment.
jinfiesto 14y ago
I'm not trying to be judgmental. I don't mean that it's "wrong" to meditate for concrete reasons. Just that to do so is in a fundamental sense missing the point. Of course, reality transcends my notions of it. Respectfully, I must also disagree with Yasutani Roshi. The dynamic power he refers to is the energy of mindfulness. While meditation is certainly a powerful way to cultivate it, if your ability to remain mindful recedes without it, you have a problem with leaky insight, not with inadequate sitting time. With the right insight, everything becomes meditation and mindfulness a way of life. The ability to be in doing is a pretty important step along the path. I am of course not encouraging not practicing sitting. By all means, practice diligently. All the same, I have nothing against anyone practicing meditation for any reason.

hosh 14y ago

@ramblerman, the more you practice, the more your practice and experience informs the advice. Written works like that take on much less meaning, as does the notion of pulling them out to support your reasoning. Based on my experience, "to meditate for any reason other than because its the truth" and "It is a dynamic power which, once mobilized, enables us even the most sudden and unexpected situations to act instantly" do not contradict each other and are one and the same. You become less and less a slave of your own impulses and reactions. You perceive the truth of those impulses. You cut your way free and can act like a child, spontaneously correct in the moment without spinning in your mind. But my experience doesn't mean anything to you. Leaning on it takes you away from your own experience of the present moment.

jinfiesto 14y ago

I'm not trying to be judgmental. I don't mean that it's "wrong" to meditate for concrete reasons. Just that to do so is in a fundamental sense missing the point. Of course, reality transcends my notions of it. Respectfully, I must also disagree with Yasutani Roshi. The dynamic power he refers to is the energy of mindfulness. While meditation is certainly a powerful way to cultivate it, if your ability to remain mindful recedes without it, you have a problem with leaky insight, not with inadequate sitting time. With the right insight, everything becomes meditation and mindfulness a way of life. The ability to be in doing is a pretty important step along the path. I am of course not encouraging not practicing sitting. By all means, practice diligently. All the same, I have nothing against anyone practicing meditation for any reason.