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Metrickery is a socialist plot to weaken America. First it's units of measurement divisible by ten, then it's universal health care, then gun control, and final

Metrickery is a socialist plot to weaken America. First it's units of measurement divisible by ten, then it's universal health care, then gun control, and finally off to the gulag for the last remaining freethinkers. Sadly, there are people who believe more of less exactly what I just wrote.

javert 14y ago
Actually, the "Europe is better and the US is inferior" mantra, which is very widely held in the American left-of-center, is a significant factor in all of those.
- RyanMcGreal 14y ago
  As a Canadian, I'd be inclined to call it the "every other industrialized liberal democracy on earth is better" mantra. Countries tend to converge on an optimal balance of individual liberties and social protections because it measurably works. The US is a notable outlier, and the various comparative social and economic indicators are pretty damning evidence that the continued American insistence on an 18th century approach to governance actually is inferior to a number of other approaches that have been more inclined to take evidence-based best practices into account.
  - javert 14y ago
    > Countries tend to converge on an optimal balance of individual liberties and social protections because it measurably works. That's just utter nonsense. What measurement are you optimizing for? What makes you think that moving the US to the left moves it closer to, say, Germany, instead of closer to, say, Brazil, India, and Mexico (which is what I think will happen)? And even if it did move it closer to Germany, I wouldn't want that, which speaks to the fact that your "measurably works" claim probably refers to some non-objective sense of optimality. > the continued American insistence on an 18th century approach to governance That's a straw man. Predominating sentiments in the GOP are strongly contra the Founding Fathers. I mean, George W. Bush greatly expanded the welfare state.
    - RivieraKid 14y ago
      Society should optimize for happiness. It's not measurable, but you can estimate it (for example you can estimate that average German is happier than average citizen of North Korea). My vague definition happiness is this: Let's say you must choose between 2 states of mind and you'll spend the next hour in the selected one. Before your choice, you can try each of them by clicking some button. The one that you choose has higher "happiness quotient".
      - javert 14y ago
        So let's draft 1% of the population and place them in a large underground bunker at birth. They will never be allowed to know anything about the "real world," and they will provide all the labor, engineering, and scientific research for the other 99%, who get to everything for free. Does that sound like a good society to you?
        RivieraKid 14y ago
        No, because this very probably wouldn't increase average happiness: 1. The 1% would be less happy. 2. Lot of the 99% would feel guilty (which lowers happiness). 3. The 1% would probably be less productive than if they were free. So the only benefit for the 99% would be that they consume less. By the way, this system to a certain extent exist in our society (cheap labour in China for example).
    - RyanMcGreal 14y ago
      > What measurement are you optimizing for? Take your pick. The US is at or very near the worst among OECD countries in: infant mortality, child poverty, child health and safety, life expectancy at birth, healthy life expectancy, rate of obesity, disability-adjusted life years, doctors per 1000 people, deaths from treatable conditions, rate of mental health disorders, rate of drug abuse, rate of prescription drug use, incarceration rate, rate of assaults, rate of homicides, income inequality, wealth inequality, and economic mobility.
      - 14y ago
  - chernevik 14y ago
    The working of any given balance of liberties and social protections is a phenomenon observable only in time increments over centuries, or possibly millenia. There are many examples of "liberal" and even "democratic" or "republican" governments / societies that lasted for centuries before failing into tyranny and / or to foreign domination. The US Constitution attempts to correct the failings of each of those examples. Saying it has worked so far is declaring the weather today, all day long, was great -- at 9:30am. Saying the French or Germans have demonstrated their solutions, at that time scale, is just nuts.
twoodfin 14y ago
It must be fun to live in a world where everyone who disagrees with you is a moron.
- RyanMcGreal 14y ago
  It must be unpleasant to assume that everyone who disagrees with you thinks you're a moron.

javert 14y ago

Actually, the "Europe is better and the US is inferior" mantra, which is very widely held in the American left-of-center, is a significant factor in all of those.

RyanMcGreal 14y ago
As a Canadian, I'd be inclined to call it the "every other industrialized liberal democracy on earth is better" mantra. Countries tend to converge on an optimal balance of individual liberties and social protections because it measurably works. The US is a notable outlier, and the various comparative social and economic indicators are pretty damning evidence that the continued American insistence on an 18th century approach to governance actually is inferior to a number of other approaches that have been more inclined to take evidence-based best practices into account.
- javert 14y ago
  > Countries tend to converge on an optimal balance of individual liberties and social protections because it measurably works. That's just utter nonsense. What measurement are you optimizing for? What makes you think that moving the US to the left moves it closer to, say, Germany, instead of closer to, say, Brazil, India, and Mexico (which is what I think will happen)? And even if it did move it closer to Germany, I wouldn't want that, which speaks to the fact that your "measurably works" claim probably refers to some non-objective sense of optimality. > the continued American insistence on an 18th century approach to governance That's a straw man. Predominating sentiments in the GOP are strongly contra the Founding Fathers. I mean, George W. Bush greatly expanded the welfare state.
  - RivieraKid 14y ago
    Society should optimize for happiness. It's not measurable, but you can estimate it (for example you can estimate that average German is happier than average citizen of North Korea). My vague definition happiness is this: Let's say you must choose between 2 states of mind and you'll spend the next hour in the selected one. Before your choice, you can try each of them by clicking some button. The one that you choose has higher "happiness quotient".
    - javert 14y ago
      So let's draft 1% of the population and place them in a large underground bunker at birth. They will never be allowed to know anything about the "real world," and they will provide all the labor, engineering, and scientific research for the other 99%, who get to everything for free. Does that sound like a good society to you?
      - RivieraKid 14y ago
        No, because this very probably wouldn't increase average happiness: 1. The 1% would be less happy. 2. Lot of the 99% would feel guilty (which lowers happiness). 3. The 1% would probably be less productive than if they were free. So the only benefit for the 99% would be that they consume less. By the way, this system to a certain extent exist in our society (cheap labour in China for example).
  - RyanMcGreal 14y ago
    > What measurement are you optimizing for? Take your pick. The US is at or very near the worst among OECD countries in: infant mortality, child poverty, child health and safety, life expectancy at birth, healthy life expectancy, rate of obesity, disability-adjusted life years, doctors per 1000 people, deaths from treatable conditions, rate of mental health disorders, rate of drug abuse, rate of prescription drug use, incarceration rate, rate of assaults, rate of homicides, income inequality, wealth inequality, and economic mobility.
    - 14y ago
- chernevik 14y ago
  The working of any given balance of liberties and social protections is a phenomenon observable only in time increments over centuries, or possibly millenia. There are many examples of "liberal" and even "democratic" or "republican" governments / societies that lasted for centuries before failing into tyranny and / or to foreign domination. The US Constitution attempts to correct the failings of each of those examples. Saying it has worked so far is declaring the weather today, all day long, was great -- at 9:30am. Saying the French or Germans have demonstrated their solutions, at that time scale, is just nuts.

twoodfin 14y ago

It must be fun to live in a world where everyone who disagrees with you is a moron.

RyanMcGreal 14y ago
It must be unpleasant to assume that everyone who disagrees with you thinks you're a moron.