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I can't help but feel that the recent mindfulness fad, and some of this blog, misses the point. While meditation, and mindfulness in general, does have plenty o

I can't help but feel that the recent mindfulness fad, and some of this blog, misses the point. While meditation, and mindfulness in general, does have plenty of wonderful side effects, to meditate for any reason other than because it's the truth will eventually be self-defeating. The only thing that any of us are truly capable of losing is the present moment. Meditation is simply a pure expression of that fact. When you meditate for any of its myriad benefits, without framing it in the context of an expression of ultimate reality, it becomes just another form of grasping. This is not to say that you should never use meditation as a tool. Samatha meditation is practiced explicitly to improve concentration, and Vipassana to improve insight. That being said, be mindful of your grasping and try to avoid meditating into your preconceptions. Ultimately meditation is a pure surrender to what is; not striving towards what you believe should be. "Those who have great realization of delusion are buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings." -Zen master Eihei Dogen

loup-vaillant 14y ago
> to meditate for any reason other than because it's the truth will eventually be self-defeating. What? I get a type error when I try to parse that sentence (meditation isn't a boolean). Could you explain that part?
- stonemetal 14y ago
  Truth not true. Basically he is saying if you follow Buddhism the Philosophy, but don't ascribe to Buddhism the Religion then you are doing it wrong.
  - hosh 14y ago
    Uh. No.
- jwdunne 14y ago
  The present, which meditation allows you to experience, is truth because it's about experiencing what currently is without any subjective interpretation or judgement. It is what is, nothing more, nothing less - quite honestly the truth! To meditate for any other reason would mean ignorance, partial or full, of the present. The title of this post is a hood example: you shouldn't meditate to get shit done because that is a goal, a fabrication of the mind and is based firmly in the future which means its most definitely not about experiencing the present.
  - hosh 14y ago
    With different words: "I want to get this shit done." <-- This is an artifact of the mind, though it feels real. In Noting practice, you attempt to "note" the arising and passing of artifacts. So, what is this? "I feel an impulse to get shit done." <-- Letting go of "getting shit done" and staying more to the present. In the present, you feel the impulse, you are not spraying your mind out into the imagined future/past where the shit has to be done. "I feel an impulse to finish." <-- Letting go on what you specifically needs to get done. "I feel an impulse." <-- Letting go of the notion of "finishing" something. "I feel." <-- Letting go of the notion of automatically reacting to impulses. "Feel." <-- Letting go of the notion of "self". "..." <-- Mu. "" <-- <-- "Oh shit, what hell was that?!?" <-- Everything that lives, will die, and eventually, new things are born. Just as "these things will pass", there new thoughts and emotions will arise. And so it goes.
neumann_alfred 14y ago
This is so true, yet was modded down.. while posts like "You could really gamify meditation" are so ironic I still haven't accepted they're meant seriously :/
ramblerman 14y ago
"to meditate for any reason other than because it's the truth will eventually be self-defeating" Not sure I agree. You quote a zen master. The book I am currently reading "The Three pillars of zen" gives much less judgmental advice. I'm not gonna type the whole thing up, but it basically states that there is no problem with people just going after the goal of increased concentration, a state they describe as: "this is more than the ability to concentrate in the usual sense of the word. It is a dynamic power which, once mobilized, enables us even in the most sudden and unexpected situations to act instantly. Those who have developed 'it' are no longer slaves to their passions." It does say that this "quality" recedes without practice, it's something you have to maintain by meditating every day, as opposed to the actual deep changes that come from seeking enlightenment. But it is perfectly fine for people to pursue meditation for benefits completely unrelated to spirituality or enlightenment. The quote and paraphrasing are all from the book and come from zen master Yasutani-roshu.
- hosh 14y ago
  @ramblerman, the more you practice, the more your practice and experience informs the advice. Written works like that take on much less meaning, as does the notion of pulling them out to support your reasoning. Based on my experience, "to meditate for any reason other than because its the truth" and "It is a dynamic power which, once mobilized, enables us even the most sudden and unexpected situations to act instantly" do not contradict each other and are one and the same. You become less and less a slave of your own impulses and reactions. You perceive the truth of those impulses. You cut your way free and can act like a child, spontaneously correct in the moment without spinning in your mind. But my experience doesn't mean anything to you. Leaning on it takes you away from your own experience of the present moment.
- jinfiesto 14y ago
  I'm not trying to be judgmental. I don't mean that it's "wrong" to meditate for concrete reasons. Just that to do so is in a fundamental sense missing the point. Of course, reality transcends my notions of it. Respectfully, I must also disagree with Yasutani Roshi. The dynamic power he refers to is the energy of mindfulness. While meditation is certainly a powerful way to cultivate it, if your ability to remain mindful recedes without it, you have a problem with leaky insight, not with inadequate sitting time. With the right insight, everything becomes meditation and mindfulness a way of life. The ability to be in doing is a pretty important step along the path. I am of course not encouraging not practicing sitting. By all means, practice diligently. All the same, I have nothing against anyone practicing meditation for any reason.
hosh 14y ago
Though to be fair, I think the "fad" is as much as encouraging people to give it a shot. "Give the person what they want in the guise of what they need." That method of transmission has been around for centuries. It's hoped that eventually, you start examining your own grasping, and the kind of Jungian shadows lurking there. On the other hand, for this crowd, it also means deliberately examining things like -- well, why are you trying to build a startup? Why are you trying to launch a new product? Is your hot new social network really going to change the world the way you think? Do you really need to change the world? If those feel uncomfortable, then the mindfulness practice is paying off ...

loup-vaillant 14y ago

> to meditate for any reason other than because it's the truth will eventually be self-defeating. What? I get a type error when I try to parse that sentence (meditation isn't a boolean). Could you explain that part?

stonemetal 14y ago
Truth not true. Basically he is saying if you follow Buddhism the Philosophy, but don't ascribe to Buddhism the Religion then you are doing it wrong.
- hosh 14y ago
  Uh. No.
jwdunne 14y ago
The present, which meditation allows you to experience, is truth because it's about experiencing what currently is without any subjective interpretation or judgement. It is what is, nothing more, nothing less - quite honestly the truth! To meditate for any other reason would mean ignorance, partial or full, of the present. The title of this post is a hood example: you shouldn't meditate to get shit done because that is a goal, a fabrication of the mind and is based firmly in the future which means its most definitely not about experiencing the present.
- hosh 14y ago
  With different words: "I want to get this shit done." <-- This is an artifact of the mind, though it feels real. In Noting practice, you attempt to "note" the arising and passing of artifacts. So, what is this? "I feel an impulse to get shit done." <-- Letting go of "getting shit done" and staying more to the present. In the present, you feel the impulse, you are not spraying your mind out into the imagined future/past where the shit has to be done. "I feel an impulse to finish." <-- Letting go on what you specifically needs to get done. "I feel an impulse." <-- Letting go of the notion of "finishing" something. "I feel." <-- Letting go of the notion of automatically reacting to impulses. "Feel." <-- Letting go of the notion of "self". "..." <-- Mu. "" <-- <-- "Oh shit, what hell was that?!?" <-- Everything that lives, will die, and eventually, new things are born. Just as "these things will pass", there new thoughts and emotions will arise. And so it goes.

neumann_alfred 14y ago

This is so true, yet was modded down.. while posts like "You could really gamify meditation" are so ironic I still haven't accepted they're meant seriously :/

ramblerman 14y ago

"to meditate for any reason other than because it's the truth will eventually be self-defeating" Not sure I agree. You quote a zen master. The book I am currently reading "The Three pillars of zen" gives much less judgmental advice. I'm not gonna type the whole thing up, but it basically states that there is no problem with people just going after the goal of increased concentration, a state they describe as: "this is more than the ability to concentrate in the usual sense of the word. It is a dynamic power which, once mobilized, enables us even in the most sudden and unexpected situations to act instantly. Those who have developed 'it' are no longer slaves to their passions." It does say that this "quality" recedes without practice, it's something you have to maintain by meditating every day, as opposed to the actual deep changes that come from seeking enlightenment. But it is perfectly fine for people to pursue meditation for benefits completely unrelated to spirituality or enlightenment. The quote and paraphrasing are all from the book and come from zen master Yasutani-roshu.

hosh 14y ago
@ramblerman, the more you practice, the more your practice and experience informs the advice. Written works like that take on much less meaning, as does the notion of pulling them out to support your reasoning. Based on my experience, "to meditate for any reason other than because its the truth" and "It is a dynamic power which, once mobilized, enables us even the most sudden and unexpected situations to act instantly" do not contradict each other and are one and the same. You become less and less a slave of your own impulses and reactions. You perceive the truth of those impulses. You cut your way free and can act like a child, spontaneously correct in the moment without spinning in your mind. But my experience doesn't mean anything to you. Leaning on it takes you away from your own experience of the present moment.
jinfiesto 14y ago
I'm not trying to be judgmental. I don't mean that it's "wrong" to meditate for concrete reasons. Just that to do so is in a fundamental sense missing the point. Of course, reality transcends my notions of it. Respectfully, I must also disagree with Yasutani Roshi. The dynamic power he refers to is the energy of mindfulness. While meditation is certainly a powerful way to cultivate it, if your ability to remain mindful recedes without it, you have a problem with leaky insight, not with inadequate sitting time. With the right insight, everything becomes meditation and mindfulness a way of life. The ability to be in doing is a pretty important step along the path. I am of course not encouraging not practicing sitting. By all means, practice diligently. All the same, I have nothing against anyone practicing meditation for any reason.

hosh 14y ago

Though to be fair, I think the "fad" is as much as encouraging people to give it a shot. "Give the person what they want in the guise of what they need." That method of transmission has been around for centuries. It's hoped that eventually, you start examining your own grasping, and the kind of Jungian shadows lurking there. On the other hand, for this crowd, it also means deliberately examining things like -- well, why are you trying to build a startup? Why are you trying to launch a new product? Is your hot new social network really going to change the world the way you think? Do you really need to change the world? If those feel uncomfortable, then the mindfulness practice is paying off ...