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I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US that it might not make any sense. However that's no reason to call it a scam.

r3demon 14y ago
still, taking 30+ days to register is insane, its clear they are some kind of monopoly and need more competitors
- SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
  > still, taking 30+ days to register is insane It may just be an indication that the the system is being used for things that it was never intended for. Maybe for the original uses, a 30-day lead time wasn't such a big deal, e.g. "when doing business with the government" over many years.
- Mvandenbergh 14y ago
  Well the system is designed to facilitate long distance and international trade (with a DUNS number you can look-up how long a business has existed and their payment history) even if you're in Pakistan and they're in Argentina. Since companies dealing in physical goods take much longer than 30 days to set-up anyway the process hasn't traditionally been a constraint. All that "unneccesary information" is very relevant for a textile shipper even if it isn't for someone selling a crossword app.
jakejake 14y ago
It's not a scam but they do call and pressure you to buy their costly advanced listing. I once got into a surprising argument with a phone rep as he practically refused to take no for an answer. I had only registered to bid on govt contracts. Left a very bad taste in my mouth for their services.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  Same here. They do a good "Nice little business you've got there, but it's getting a lot of reports" act. Easy to resist when my business hadn't engaged in any activity at all in the couple of months since I'd registered for the number. Total scam.
nhebb 14y ago
D&B makes money selling their rating information, but while a DUNS number is free, you have to pay to manage your rating. I can't recall the exact wording but the salesman's phone pitch bordered on "Nice little business you got there. It'd be a shame if anything happened to your DUNS rating." These two links share similar experiences: http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.505486.11 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.505486.1... http://www.cartoonbarry.com/2010/06/dun_bradstreet_seems_scammy_he.html http://www.cartoonbarry.com/2010/06/dun_bradstreet_seems_sca...
- guptaneil 14y ago
  You might as well be dealing with the Mob.
- QuantumGood 14y ago
  Joel's post has an update that "you can update your [DUNS] information for free at eupdate or by calling them at 866-584-0283" eupdate is at https://iupdate.dnb.com/iUpdate/viewiUpdateHome.htm https://iupdate.dnb.com/iUpdate/viewiUpdateHome.htm
- illuminate 14y ago
  "while a DUNS number is free, you have to pay to manage your rating" Sounds like they're going with the Better Business Bureau's model, only with less consumer pretense that they're a legitimate governmental agency with the power to do anything and less charitable "we're a volunteer-staffed agency and thus neutral" airs.
guptaneil 14y ago
Scam might be too harsh a word, but it is more than just a pain. They have a pattern of shady business practices, including bullying customers into paying more for a service that they have a federally-granted monopoly on. They are abusing their position as a DUNS provider to make profit off of uninformed small businesses. That's what earns them the title of a scam. DUNS may very well be a useful service, but if it's managed by a scamming company, then the usefulness of the service erodes.
- jacquesm 14y ago
  Scam is just fine.
wes-exp 14y ago
One probably wouldn't think the "Better Business Bureau" (BBB) is a scam, either. But the BBB is known for shaking down businesses and having them pay up to obtain a good rating. As is Yelp. I think the real problem here is trusting ratings organizations to objectively "rate" companies when they have an incentive to extract money from those companies.
- illuminate 14y ago
  "As is Yelp." These days I think the majority of these claims refer to separate "social media experts" who claim to be able to adjust "yelp reputation" and imply that they have an in, but do not work for Yelp or have any connections, just sockpuppet accounts. http://www.thefunkyapple.com/2012/01/scam-alert-craigslist-ad-will-pay-you-to-post-fake-yelp-reviews/ http://www.thefunkyapple.com/2012/01/scam-alert-craigslist-a...
betterunix 14y ago
"It's a useful tool used in the real world of business." Tool? It does not sound like a tool, at least not based on your description: "Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay?" ...sounds kind of like a credit rating service... "Want to get and Federal work?" ...sounds like bureaucracy. It sounds to me like DUNS is a service, not a "tool," and that they are the sort of service that slows everyone and everything down. It should come as no surprise that it is a pain for lone coders: it was designed for expansive bureaucracies, and it has the effect of further expanding those bureaucracies. I have to wonder what it is that Apple hopes to gain by using this system. Why do they even bother to uniquely identify app developers? Why not just issue a signing key every time someone pays their fee? It sounds like DUNS is just another way for Apple to exclude small operations and focus on the large operations that make most of the popular apps in their app store.
- Steko 14y ago
  "I have to wonder what it is that Apple hopes to gain by using this system. " I'd guess a reaction to fly-by-night developers with scammy and copycat apps that generated far more bad press for the App Store than DUNS-gate.
DigitalBison 14y ago
I have no experience with DUNS so I can't say whether or not I agree it's a scam, but I can say that this article didn't make the case for me that it is. The article mentioned the process for requesting a DUNS number being annoying, and taking a while, but made no compelling argument that there's anything scammy about it.

r3demon 14y ago

still, taking 30+ days to register is insane, its clear they are some kind of monopoly and need more competitors

SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
> still, taking 30+ days to register is insane It may just be an indication that the the system is being used for things that it was never intended for. Maybe for the original uses, a 30-day lead time wasn't such a big deal, e.g. "when doing business with the government" over many years.
Mvandenbergh 14y ago
Well the system is designed to facilitate long distance and international trade (with a DUNS number you can look-up how long a business has existed and their payment history) even if you're in Pakistan and they're in Argentina. Since companies dealing in physical goods take much longer than 30 days to set-up anyway the process hasn't traditionally been a constraint. All that "unneccesary information" is very relevant for a textile shipper even if it isn't for someone selling a crossword app.

jakejake 14y ago

It's not a scam but they do call and pressure you to buy their costly advanced listing. I once got into a surprising argument with a phone rep as he practically refused to take no for an answer. I had only registered to bid on govt contracts. Left a very bad taste in my mouth for their services.

CamperBob2 14y ago
Same here. They do a good "Nice little business you've got there, but it's getting a lot of reports" act. Easy to resist when my business hadn't engaged in any activity at all in the couple of months since I'd registered for the number. Total scam.

nhebb 14y ago

D&B makes money selling their rating information, but while a DUNS number is free, you have to pay to manage your rating. I can't recall the exact wording but the salesman's phone pitch bordered on "Nice little business you got there. It'd be a shame if anything happened to your DUNS rating." These two links share similar experiences: http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.505486.11 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.505486.1... http://www.cartoonbarry.com/2010/06/dun_bradstreet_seems_scammy_he.html http://www.cartoonbarry.com/2010/06/dun_bradstreet_seems_sca...

guptaneil 14y ago
You might as well be dealing with the Mob.
QuantumGood 14y ago
Joel's post has an update that "you can update your [DUNS] information for free at eupdate or by calling them at 866-584-0283" eupdate is at https://iupdate.dnb.com/iUpdate/viewiUpdateHome.htm https://iupdate.dnb.com/iUpdate/viewiUpdateHome.htm
illuminate 14y ago
"while a DUNS number is free, you have to pay to manage your rating" Sounds like they're going with the Better Business Bureau's model, only with less consumer pretense that they're a legitimate governmental agency with the power to do anything and less charitable "we're a volunteer-staffed agency and thus neutral" airs.

guptaneil 14y ago

Scam might be too harsh a word, but it is more than just a pain. They have a pattern of shady business practices, including bullying customers into paying more for a service that they have a federally-granted monopoly on. They are abusing their position as a DUNS provider to make profit off of uninformed small businesses. That's what earns them the title of a scam. DUNS may very well be a useful service, but if it's managed by a scamming company, then the usefulness of the service erodes.

jacquesm 14y ago
Scam is just fine.

wes-exp 14y ago

One probably wouldn't think the "Better Business Bureau" (BBB) is a scam, either. But the BBB is known for shaking down businesses and having them pay up to obtain a good rating. As is Yelp. I think the real problem here is trusting ratings organizations to objectively "rate" companies when they have an incentive to extract money from those companies.

illuminate 14y ago
"As is Yelp." These days I think the majority of these claims refer to separate "social media experts" who claim to be able to adjust "yelp reputation" and imply that they have an in, but do not work for Yelp or have any connections, just sockpuppet accounts. http://www.thefunkyapple.com/2012/01/scam-alert-craigslist-ad-will-pay-you-to-post-fake-yelp-reviews/ http://www.thefunkyapple.com/2012/01/scam-alert-craigslist-a...

betterunix 14y ago

"It's a useful tool used in the real world of business." Tool? It does not sound like a tool, at least not based on your description: "Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay?" ...sounds kind of like a credit rating service... "Want to get and Federal work?" ...sounds like bureaucracy. It sounds to me like DUNS is a service, not a "tool," and that they are the sort of service that slows everyone and everything down. It should come as no surprise that it is a pain for lone coders: it was designed for expansive bureaucracies, and it has the effect of further expanding those bureaucracies. I have to wonder what it is that Apple hopes to gain by using this system. Why do they even bother to uniquely identify app developers? Why not just issue a signing key every time someone pays their fee? It sounds like DUNS is just another way for Apple to exclude small operations and focus on the large operations that make most of the popular apps in their app store.

Steko 14y ago
"I have to wonder what it is that Apple hopes to gain by using this system. " I'd guess a reaction to fly-by-night developers with scammy and copycat apps that generated far more bad press for the App Store than DUNS-gate.

DigitalBison 14y ago

I have no experience with DUNS so I can't say whether or not I agree it's a scam, but I can say that this article didn't make the case for me that it is. The article mentioned the process for requesting a DUNS number being annoying, and taking a while, but made no compelling argument that there's anything scammy about it.