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Have you thought about creating high-tech mala (prayer/meditation beads)? They're used to count the breath or repetition of mantras without thinking about it. M

Have you thought about creating high-tech mala (prayer/meditation beads)? They're used to count the breath or repetition of mantras without thinking about it. Making it one full way around (often 108 beads) is supposed to be a good amount of time to meditate. A high-tech version could gather all kinds of data during meditations and gamify the whole process. Of course, that might defeat the purpose for some people.

rd108 14y ago
this is a great idea. I personally have found using a mala to be really rewarding. We've played with various timing methodologies but maybe there's a physical hardware device that combines a biosensor and mala we haven't considered yet. Thank you. :) Happy new year.
- Benferhat 14y ago
  You could really gamify meditation by recording things like heart rate, perspiration, time between beads, frequency of practice, etc. Like a Buddhist Nike+.
  - rd108 14y ago
    I love "Buddhist Nike+"! We are staying away from language that might turn people off but it's a pretty compact way to describe this whole set of devices. :)
  - danieldk 14y ago
    That could work for concentration meditation, but I think this could create pitfalls in mindfulness meditation. Mindfulness is seeing things as they are. If there is angriness, there is angriness. If angriness leads to a higher heart rate, there is a higher heart rate. Such gamification could have the effect that people who practice meditations start pushing away and block negative emotions, etc. The goals is not to not think about anything. The goal is to be aware of things as they are without judgment.
    - Benferhat 14y ago
      > The goal is to be aware of things as they are without judgment. As long as it's being done your way, right? People get dogmatic and judgmental about everything, your post is evidence that meditation is no different.
      - hosh 14y ago
        Getting dogmatic and judgmental has less to do with human nature, and more to do with human habit. We have a habit of avoidance and attachment. I don't think he is accusing you of being judemental so much as pointing out, it is possible to be aware of things without judgement. I was looking deep into the gamification two years ago when it was first getting popular. I even tried to gamify my meditation practice at that point. It did not work. It did not work because I was using the gamification to avoid experiencing what arises during practice. People who do not practice have an extremely difficult time starting a practice. I know this because I had trouble, and so do my buddies who practice. When you decide to start, some part of you knows you will be sitting there. In a room. In the quiet. With. No. Escape. With no escape from yourself. Never mind that you "volunteered." There are lots and lots of issues that arises -- most people don't really like themselves, or like their life. People consume entertainment product precisely to avoid experiencing what is going on in the present -- and gamification is at its heart, an entertainment product used for avoiding suffering. People are chasing after ... something. The irony being that, if you were to look at what it is you are chasing after, it can only be found in the present moment. I have been practicing daily for a year ... and I still have those pings I get whispering, "no... it is OK if you skip your practice today." It's really funny to see how my emotions start thrashing more as I approach the designated practice time. Or the kind of thoughts that arise to distract me from it. I still use the Streak app to track my meditation practice. When I first started, I was so hung up on it. If I broke a streak, I'd flog myself for having failed, spiraling into loops of feeling inadequate, being a loser, "Why can't I ever sustain a practice!?" kind of stuff. These days, I still use the app ... when I remember. Instead of having it on my home screen on my iphone, I keep it in the back. Even feelings of having accomplished an unbroken streak have attenuated. They vaguely arise like sleepy guests at a bed & breakfast; I feed them a bit of attention and let them go on their way.
  - hosh 14y ago
    Eh ... Before you try that, you should try an older product called the Wild Divine. It's a nice game, but since my practice has stabilized, I have not played with it.
danieldk 14y ago
Of course, that might defeat the purpose for some people. For me it would. Mindfulness meditation is accepting things as they are. When you are tired, you are tired. When you fall asleep, you fall asleep. I find peace in meditation exactly because there's nothing to attain. Of course, gamification might help newcomers, so it's a worthwhile experiment.
- Benferhat 14y ago
  Well it wouldn't really be about "helping" them in the traditional way, but more of an upaya.

rd108 14y ago

this is a great idea. I personally have found using a mala to be really rewarding. We've played with various timing methodologies but maybe there's a physical hardware device that combines a biosensor and mala we haven't considered yet. Thank you. :) Happy new year.

Benferhat 14y ago
You could really gamify meditation by recording things like heart rate, perspiration, time between beads, frequency of practice, etc. Like a Buddhist Nike+.
- rd108 14y ago
  I love "Buddhist Nike+"! We are staying away from language that might turn people off but it's a pretty compact way to describe this whole set of devices. :)
- danieldk 14y ago
  That could work for concentration meditation, but I think this could create pitfalls in mindfulness meditation. Mindfulness is seeing things as they are. If there is angriness, there is angriness. If angriness leads to a higher heart rate, there is a higher heart rate. Such gamification could have the effect that people who practice meditations start pushing away and block negative emotions, etc. The goals is not to not think about anything. The goal is to be aware of things as they are without judgment.
  - Benferhat 14y ago
    > The goal is to be aware of things as they are without judgment. As long as it's being done your way, right? People get dogmatic and judgmental about everything, your post is evidence that meditation is no different.
    - hosh 14y ago
      Getting dogmatic and judgmental has less to do with human nature, and more to do with human habit. We have a habit of avoidance and attachment. I don't think he is accusing you of being judemental so much as pointing out, it is possible to be aware of things without judgement. I was looking deep into the gamification two years ago when it was first getting popular. I even tried to gamify my meditation practice at that point. It did not work. It did not work because I was using the gamification to avoid experiencing what arises during practice. People who do not practice have an extremely difficult time starting a practice. I know this because I had trouble, and so do my buddies who practice. When you decide to start, some part of you knows you will be sitting there. In a room. In the quiet. With. No. Escape. With no escape from yourself. Never mind that you "volunteered." There are lots and lots of issues that arises -- most people don't really like themselves, or like their life. People consume entertainment product precisely to avoid experiencing what is going on in the present -- and gamification is at its heart, an entertainment product used for avoiding suffering. People are chasing after ... something. The irony being that, if you were to look at what it is you are chasing after, it can only be found in the present moment. I have been practicing daily for a year ... and I still have those pings I get whispering, "no... it is OK if you skip your practice today." It's really funny to see how my emotions start thrashing more as I approach the designated practice time. Or the kind of thoughts that arise to distract me from it. I still use the Streak app to track my meditation practice. When I first started, I was so hung up on it. If I broke a streak, I'd flog myself for having failed, spiraling into loops of feeling inadequate, being a loser, "Why can't I ever sustain a practice!?" kind of stuff. These days, I still use the app ... when I remember. Instead of having it on my home screen on my iphone, I keep it in the back. Even feelings of having accomplished an unbroken streak have attenuated. They vaguely arise like sleepy guests at a bed & breakfast; I feed them a bit of attention and let them go on their way.
- hosh 14y ago
  Eh ... Before you try that, you should try an older product called the Wild Divine. It's a nice game, but since my practice has stabilized, I have not played with it.

danieldk 14y ago

Of course, that might defeat the purpose for some people. For me it would. Mindfulness meditation is accepting things as they are. When you are tired, you are tired. When you fall asleep, you fall asleep. I find peace in meditation exactly because there's nothing to attain. Of course, gamification might help newcomers, so it's a worthwhile experiment.

Benferhat 14y ago
Well it wouldn't really be about "helping" them in the traditional way, but more of an upaya.