4 ms·

One of the most devastating things about this disease is that the majority of its sufferers refuse medication, based on the fear, distrust, and paranoia brought

One of the most devastating things about this disease is that the majority of its sufferers refuse medication, based on the fear, distrust, and paranoia brought on by their condition. To be sure, medication is not always effective for schizophrenia, but the disease's course without medication is a terrible one. I'm not sure how schizophrenia is handled in other countries, but in the US you can't force medication except in a hospital (often via the ER). And there is a dire lack of facilities that specialize in treating and supporting people with schizophrenia.

alexpenny 14y ago
Thank you for bringing this up. It's often looked over from those not experienced with mental illness. A close relative has been affected by mental issues and is too paranoid to get help from it. She's still well enough to talk to me and remember who I am, but is so far in another reality that there is nothing you can do to help. It's a terrible illness and for a lot of people it's all downhill.
DanBC 14y ago
In the UK there are several ways a person can be "detained under section of the mental health act" - there are a variety of short detentions that can be started by a qualified nurse and agreed by a doctor; or by a police officer to take someone to a place of safety; and longer stays for assessment; and then 6 month detentions that have to be agreed by two doctors and an Approved Mental Health Professional (usually a social worker). Once on a section medication can be forced. But lack of capacity to make the choice is not automatic, and so people have to be careful when forcing treatment. This is especially true if there are "Rainy Day Action Plans" or "advanced directives" where the patient has (while well) laid out plans for their treatment when ill. There are also community treatment orders where people can be forced to take medication while living in the community. In theory there are protections for patients. In practice there's a scary amount of abuse of the system. Doctors use coercion (they say "go in voluntarily or I'll section you", with they must not do) or once in hospital patients are forced to take medication which they disagree with, and which they haven't consented to, and which they've had previous bad effects from, while not allowed to take a medication that they've used before. The UK has a complicated system of NHS (free) health trusts buying provision from private hospitals. This especially happens with mental health services. Services for young people are underfunded and over crowded. Services for people with learning disability are the same. These are some of the most vulnerable people in our society; they may have suffered horrific abuse at the hands of a family member; and abuse may continue when they go to hospital. (There are a number of high profile cases in the UK that came to light last year.) When $1,500 of tax payer money is being used every day to detain young anorexic women in hospital you don't want former Mugabe torturers working with them. (http://nehandaradio.com/2011/07/19/mugabe-cio-henchman-in-uk-court/ http://nehandaradio.com/2011/07/19/mugabe-cio-henchman-in-uk...) Having said that, we have good services for people with psychotic illness. And we've developed good services for "people with first episode of psychotic illness" because early intervention is helpful.
- itslikejail 14y ago
  I'm in Australia but the system sounds similar. I've been scheduled before because I refused to come in as a voluntary patient. I've been in a ward before as a voluntary patient and based on that experience, I never want to be in such an environment again. I don't know what the private system is like but the public one is like a prison. Because I refused, they called the police after I left the hospital. Of course, the police turn up at my parents home at 4am in the morning.. my parents don't need that drama and neither do I. If I was having a heart attack, they'd send an ambulance but instead they sick their dogs on you to drag you back. It's like a jail - at least the public system is. I was also threatened to be scheduled again by a person part of the team who do a follow up after you are released because I refused to allow them to visit my home (I agreed to this just to get the fuck out of the hospital). Shortly after you're admitted, they sit you down with a psych, his intern or some student and 2 nurses, ask you a bunch of questions and while the others sit there and watch you like an exhibit. It's such a game, one can't pretend they are 100% well otherwise they know you're lying while on the other hand, you can't be truthful because then you know they're going to force you to stay. I have insight into my delusions and I know which ones are real and which are not. I managed to talk them into letting me leave and thankfully avoided the poisonous, mind numbing shit they say I should take. In the event they would force me to stay, I already figured out a way to scale the wall and leave. Of course, you can imagine the drama that would proceed that, thank fuck it did not come to that but I will not take their medications. The first time I was in voluntary, they put me on zyprexa (pretty sure these medications have caused me numerous health issues) and I got out a week later and stopped taking that rubbish but the 2nd time they forced me into the hospital. Now, I won't contact them again regardless of what I need, you're best to keep it all to yourself because these people will kill you, it might not be their intent but they are so biased by the fact you're in there as a patient that they feel they need to give you something regardless of the reality. BTW - being scheduled stays on your medical record. So now in the event that I actually need some medical assistance, they'll look at my history, think "oh he's been scheduled before, lets schedule him again!" I'm pretty sure I have some sort of brain problem (aneurysm, tumour, cancer, not sure) but I can't get help because the moment I mention this stuff, they'll assume it's because of my past history. I can die here or I can die there, which do you think I'm gonnna choose huh? These places don't help the mentally ill, they just drug them up and shutter them away.
illuminate 14y ago
"based on the fear, distrust, and paranoia brought on by their condition." This is unfair. From my limited understanding, it's not just FUD, the medications do "dull" their wits and have very unpleasant physical side-effects that any person would legitimately not like. It may make them "more normal" to some extent, but at a cost.
- subpixel 14y ago
  > "based on the fear, distrust, and paranoia brought on by their condition." While I know this to be true in cases like that of my own family member, your comment about the side-effects of anti-psychotic meds is entirely valid.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    Right, it's certainly exacerbated by the condition. I mentioned the unpleasantness of some of the drugs to help one understand why a person would suddenly stop taking them under a "supposedly rational" state.
jrogers65 14y ago
I accidentally tried an atypical antipsychotic once. No person, sane or insane, would voluntarily consent to taking drugs with such terrible side effects. I do not blame them one bit for refusing the current generation of medication. I would even argue that it's a stretch to call it medicine since it just masks the symptoms and makes a person placid enough to deal with. By the same metric, heroin is medicine for depression.
- ignignokt 14y ago
  I take atypical antipsychotics (quetiapine to be exact), the first couple of weeks is horrible, after that it's not _that_ bad, but you definitely don't want to take them if you can possibly avoid it.

alexpenny 14y ago

Thank you for bringing this up. It's often looked over from those not experienced with mental illness. A close relative has been affected by mental issues and is too paranoid to get help from it. She's still well enough to talk to me and remember who I am, but is so far in another reality that there is nothing you can do to help. It's a terrible illness and for a lot of people it's all downhill.

DanBC 14y ago

In the UK there are several ways a person can be "detained under section of the mental health act" - there are a variety of short detentions that can be started by a qualified nurse and agreed by a doctor; or by a police officer to take someone to a place of safety; and longer stays for assessment; and then 6 month detentions that have to be agreed by two doctors and an Approved Mental Health Professional (usually a social worker). Once on a section medication can be forced. But lack of capacity to make the choice is not automatic, and so people have to be careful when forcing treatment. This is especially true if there are "Rainy Day Action Plans" or "advanced directives" where the patient has (while well) laid out plans for their treatment when ill. There are also community treatment orders where people can be forced to take medication while living in the community. In theory there are protections for patients. In practice there's a scary amount of abuse of the system. Doctors use coercion (they say "go in voluntarily or I'll section you", with they must not do) or once in hospital patients are forced to take medication which they disagree with, and which they haven't consented to, and which they've had previous bad effects from, while not allowed to take a medication that they've used before. The UK has a complicated system of NHS (free) health trusts buying provision from private hospitals. This especially happens with mental health services. Services for young people are underfunded and over crowded. Services for people with learning disability are the same. These are some of the most vulnerable people in our society; they may have suffered horrific abuse at the hands of a family member; and abuse may continue when they go to hospital. (There are a number of high profile cases in the UK that came to light last year.) When $1,500 of tax payer money is being used every day to detain young anorexic women in hospital you don't want former Mugabe torturers working with them. (http://nehandaradio.com/2011/07/19/mugabe-cio-henchman-in-uk-court/ http://nehandaradio.com/2011/07/19/mugabe-cio-henchman-in-uk...) Having said that, we have good services for people with psychotic illness. And we've developed good services for "people with first episode of psychotic illness" because early intervention is helpful.

itslikejail 14y ago
I'm in Australia but the system sounds similar. I've been scheduled before because I refused to come in as a voluntary patient. I've been in a ward before as a voluntary patient and based on that experience, I never want to be in such an environment again. I don't know what the private system is like but the public one is like a prison. Because I refused, they called the police after I left the hospital. Of course, the police turn up at my parents home at 4am in the morning.. my parents don't need that drama and neither do I. If I was having a heart attack, they'd send an ambulance but instead they sick their dogs on you to drag you back. It's like a jail - at least the public system is. I was also threatened to be scheduled again by a person part of the team who do a follow up after you are released because I refused to allow them to visit my home (I agreed to this just to get the fuck out of the hospital). Shortly after you're admitted, they sit you down with a psych, his intern or some student and 2 nurses, ask you a bunch of questions and while the others sit there and watch you like an exhibit. It's such a game, one can't pretend they are 100% well otherwise they know you're lying while on the other hand, you can't be truthful because then you know they're going to force you to stay. I have insight into my delusions and I know which ones are real and which are not. I managed to talk them into letting me leave and thankfully avoided the poisonous, mind numbing shit they say I should take. In the event they would force me to stay, I already figured out a way to scale the wall and leave. Of course, you can imagine the drama that would proceed that, thank fuck it did not come to that but I will not take their medications. The first time I was in voluntary, they put me on zyprexa (pretty sure these medications have caused me numerous health issues) and I got out a week later and stopped taking that rubbish but the 2nd time they forced me into the hospital. Now, I won't contact them again regardless of what I need, you're best to keep it all to yourself because these people will kill you, it might not be their intent but they are so biased by the fact you're in there as a patient that they feel they need to give you something regardless of the reality. BTW - being scheduled stays on your medical record. So now in the event that I actually need some medical assistance, they'll look at my history, think "oh he's been scheduled before, lets schedule him again!" I'm pretty sure I have some sort of brain problem (aneurysm, tumour, cancer, not sure) but I can't get help because the moment I mention this stuff, they'll assume it's because of my past history. I can die here or I can die there, which do you think I'm gonnna choose huh? These places don't help the mentally ill, they just drug them up and shutter them away.

illuminate 14y ago

"based on the fear, distrust, and paranoia brought on by their condition." This is unfair. From my limited understanding, it's not just FUD, the medications do "dull" their wits and have very unpleasant physical side-effects that any person would legitimately not like. It may make them "more normal" to some extent, but at a cost.

subpixel 14y ago
> "based on the fear, distrust, and paranoia brought on by their condition." While I know this to be true in cases like that of my own family member, your comment about the side-effects of anti-psychotic meds is entirely valid.
- illuminate 14y ago
  Right, it's certainly exacerbated by the condition. I mentioned the unpleasantness of some of the drugs to help one understand why a person would suddenly stop taking them under a "supposedly rational" state.

jrogers65 14y ago

I accidentally tried an atypical antipsychotic once. No person, sane or insane, would voluntarily consent to taking drugs with such terrible side effects. I do not blame them one bit for refusing the current generation of medication. I would even argue that it's a stretch to call it medicine since it just masks the symptoms and makes a person placid enough to deal with. By the same metric, heroin is medicine for depression.

ignignokt 14y ago
I take atypical antipsychotics (quetiapine to be exact), the first couple of weeks is horrible, after that it's not _that_ bad, but you definitely don't want to take them if you can possibly avoid it.