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> Speaking for myself, I have no respect for authority that does not stem from experience, knowledge, wisdom, etc. Air hosts/hostesses have none of those attrib

> Speaking for myself, I have no respect for authority that does not stem from experience, knowledge, wisdom, etc. Air hosts/hostesses have none of those attributes.. s/no respect for authority.../no respect/ Flight attendants have experience of being flight attendants, moreso than you I assume, and they're doing the job they're paid to do (which is in part to enforce those rules).

Swannie 14y ago
Flight attendants will have encountered turbulence. Most of them will have seen a major injury because someone didn't have their seat belt on when they were instructed to (usually due to turbulence). Not to mention countless minor injuries. Most will have experienced sudden stops or changes in direction whilst taxi-ing. Most will have seen passengers luggage fall on to other passengers because they got up too soon. They have experience, they all have basic aviation knowledge, a lot of first aid knowledge. The grandfather post is disappointing from swombat.
- swombat 14y ago
  Funnily enough, those are all things I don't do. I keep my seatbelt on during the flight, and I don't actually pick up my bag during taxying because it's pointless (there's a long wait after the plane stops anyway). And, as pointed out elsewhere, when asked something directly by an attendant, I do it, out of politeness if nothing else. How many flight attendants have observed a plane crashing because of an iPhone? Zero. I have no respect for those kinds orders, for which they have no authority except that handed down by an organisation that has proven relatively stupid when it comes to that topic.
swombat 14y ago
I have plenty of respect for flight attendants, actually. I actually do wear my seatbelt through the whole flight, and will of course do whatever they directly order me to. I am polite to a fault, and would never get angry at a flight attendant even if they walk past and ask me to "turn off my kindle". So, yes, I do respect flight attendants, as people. With that out of the way, I don't respect their authority to decide whether a kindle can interfere with aircraft electronics. So I disregard their suggestion to that effect, I have no respect for their authority to make that suggestion. Of course, I still put my kindle away when asked to, but I know I'm being asked to do something nonsensical and every fiber of me, as a free human being, is annoyed by the stupidity of it, and although I respect the request from another human out of politeness, I do not respect the authority behind that rule.
- DanBC 14y ago
  > and would never get angry at a flight attendant even if they walk past and ask me to "turn off my kindle". Kindles can be turned off; they also have an airplane mode. Kindles can send and receive WIFI and sometimes 3G traffic. Kindles are electronic devices. Perhaps the rules are dumb but at least they're consistently dumb. > So, yes, I do respect flight attendants, as people. Okay, that's something you should probably have mentioned earlier. > I don't respect their authority to decide whether a kindle can interfere with aircraft electronics. They don't have the authority - that's the point. They merely enforce the (potentially dumb) rules given to them. The consequences to them and their employers for not enforcing the rules are severe. They might lose their job. Their company might be fined. In general you don't want people to need to make assessments. Otherwise you get Ann saying it's fine for your kindle to be in sleep mode and Bob telling you you're going to be taken off the plane unless you turn it off. And if you do give these people that power you also need to give them the training, and the wage rise for the increased responsibility. That cost goes directly to you when you buy a ticket.
  - swombat 14y ago
    Kindles can be turned off; they also have an airplane mode. Kindles can send and receive WIFI and sometimes 3G traffic. Kindles are electronic devices. Yeah, and most Kindle owners don't know that. I therefore assume that every single flight is a piece of very strong evidence that kindles, ipads and all that lot, do not interfere with avionics, because each flight of 200 contains at least 50 active devices that have not been properly switched off for take-off or landing. Okay, that's something you should probably have mentioned earlier. Given my long history on this forum, perhaps you should not have assumed that I'm some kind of inveterate asshole just because I didn't explicitly mention that I'm not. They don't have the authority - that's the point. They merely enforce the (potentially dumb) rules given to them. The consequences to them and their employers for not enforcing the rules are severe. They might lose their job. Their company might be fined. I'm not angry at the flight attendants or even the companies for that - though the companies could probably do more to lobby for a change of the rule, on behalf of their passengers. In fact, the companies are probably not entirely blameless in this, but that would require more digging to establish. In general you don't want people to need to make assessments. Otherwise you get Ann saying it's fine for your kindle to be in sleep mode and Bob telling you you're going to be taken off the plane unless you turn it off. And if you do give these people that power you also need to give them the training, and the wage rise for the increased responsibility. That cost goes directly to you when you buy a ticket. On the contrary - if they don't need to make assessments, and their jobs are thereby dumbed down to just basically carrying drinks around and checking people's seatbelts, then they add pretty much zero to anyone's security, so your argument is nonsense. I'm happy to pay more for competence.

Swannie 14y ago

Flight attendants will have encountered turbulence. Most of them will have seen a major injury because someone didn't have their seat belt on when they were instructed to (usually due to turbulence). Not to mention countless minor injuries. Most will have experienced sudden stops or changes in direction whilst taxi-ing. Most will have seen passengers luggage fall on to other passengers because they got up too soon. They have experience, they all have basic aviation knowledge, a lot of first aid knowledge. The grandfather post is disappointing from swombat.

swombat 14y ago
Funnily enough, those are all things I don't do. I keep my seatbelt on during the flight, and I don't actually pick up my bag during taxying because it's pointless (there's a long wait after the plane stops anyway). And, as pointed out elsewhere, when asked something directly by an attendant, I do it, out of politeness if nothing else. How many flight attendants have observed a plane crashing because of an iPhone? Zero. I have no respect for those kinds orders, for which they have no authority except that handed down by an organisation that has proven relatively stupid when it comes to that topic.

swombat 14y ago

I have plenty of respect for flight attendants, actually. I actually do wear my seatbelt through the whole flight, and will of course do whatever they directly order me to. I am polite to a fault, and would never get angry at a flight attendant even if they walk past and ask me to "turn off my kindle". So, yes, I do respect flight attendants, as people. With that out of the way, I don't respect their authority to decide whether a kindle can interfere with aircraft electronics. So I disregard their suggestion to that effect, I have no respect for their authority to make that suggestion. Of course, I still put my kindle away when asked to, but I know I'm being asked to do something nonsensical and every fiber of me, as a free human being, is annoyed by the stupidity of it, and although I respect the request from another human out of politeness, I do not respect the authority behind that rule.

DanBC 14y ago
> and would never get angry at a flight attendant even if they walk past and ask me to "turn off my kindle". Kindles can be turned off; they also have an airplane mode. Kindles can send and receive WIFI and sometimes 3G traffic. Kindles are electronic devices. Perhaps the rules are dumb but at least they're consistently dumb. > So, yes, I do respect flight attendants, as people. Okay, that's something you should probably have mentioned earlier. > I don't respect their authority to decide whether a kindle can interfere with aircraft electronics. They don't have the authority - that's the point. They merely enforce the (potentially dumb) rules given to them. The consequences to them and their employers for not enforcing the rules are severe. They might lose their job. Their company might be fined. In general you don't want people to need to make assessments. Otherwise you get Ann saying it's fine for your kindle to be in sleep mode and Bob telling you you're going to be taken off the plane unless you turn it off. And if you do give these people that power you also need to give them the training, and the wage rise for the increased responsibility. That cost goes directly to you when you buy a ticket.
- swombat 14y ago
  Kindles can be turned off; they also have an airplane mode. Kindles can send and receive WIFI and sometimes 3G traffic. Kindles are electronic devices. Yeah, and most Kindle owners don't know that. I therefore assume that every single flight is a piece of very strong evidence that kindles, ipads and all that lot, do not interfere with avionics, because each flight of 200 contains at least 50 active devices that have not been properly switched off for take-off or landing. Okay, that's something you should probably have mentioned earlier. Given my long history on this forum, perhaps you should not have assumed that I'm some kind of inveterate asshole just because I didn't explicitly mention that I'm not. They don't have the authority - that's the point. They merely enforce the (potentially dumb) rules given to them. The consequences to them and their employers for not enforcing the rules are severe. They might lose their job. Their company might be fined. I'm not angry at the flight attendants or even the companies for that - though the companies could probably do more to lobby for a change of the rule, on behalf of their passengers. In fact, the companies are probably not entirely blameless in this, but that would require more digging to establish. In general you don't want people to need to make assessments. Otherwise you get Ann saying it's fine for your kindle to be in sleep mode and Bob telling you you're going to be taken off the plane unless you turn it off. And if you do give these people that power you also need to give them the training, and the wage rise for the increased responsibility. That cost goes directly to you when you buy a ticket. On the contrary - if they don't need to make assessments, and their jobs are thereby dumbed down to just basically carrying drinks around and checking people's seatbelts, then they add pretty much zero to anyone's security, so your argument is nonsense. I'm happy to pay more for competence.