4 ms·

Since this is for new Clojure users I think the install instructions should include how to install the koans with Leiningen. The instructions say to install Lei

by pivo 14y ago

Since this is for new Clojure users I think the install instructions should include how to install the koans with Leiningen. The instructions say to install Leiningen but once you've got that working you won't know how to use it to install the koans.

eccp 14y ago
I don't agree, I'd advise not to try Leiningen until you're comfortable enough with the parenthesis, the REPL and finish the koans themselves. This is 'getting your feet wet on Clojure', koans style. No need to introduce yet another tool when you're not dealing with the issues which Leinengen solves: managing library dependencies and configuration. I remember I did: the koans first, then tried several exercises on the 4clojure website, then learned about Leinengen and only then I moved into 'projects'.
- pivo 14y ago
  Ok, but the site's first suggestion is to use Leiningen to install the koans. It links to a generic Leiningen installation page, but then doesn't tell you how to use it to install the koans. Unless they expect the new user to spend significant time learning about that tool before moving on to their koans, I think it'd really be much better to have a short how-to for that.
- vemv 14y ago
  If you have lein, you can run `lein repl` which provides awesome tab-completions, documentation, and source for any given function. Pretty handy for beginners I'd say!
- cgag 14y ago
  A whole lot of people who try to get started with Clojure without lein never actually get to a repl or runnable project.
- nelsonweiss 14y ago
  Politely, I'd advise the opposite. Learn Leiningen- not only because it makes Clojure simple and pleasurable to use, but because it'd be a fantastic tool no matter what language it was part of. Project skeletons (new new), command line scripting (via lein exec), deployment, the wonderful 'lein ring server', custom plugins... and for those who just want to get their feet wet, 'lein repl' brings the ocean to you.
  - kinleyd 14y ago
    My initial reaction was to upvote @eccp, based on my experience with leiningen the first time round. Long story short: went around in circles following outdated (but seemingly comprehensive) guides that twisted my mind with hopeless combinations of Ant, Maven, Leiningen, emacs, slime and swank, among others. Basically gave up after a while, but was fortunate to get some encouragement here on HN, and went back in with just leiningen and emacs. I recall that was just the right mix, and as you say, lein repl pretty much brought the ocean to me.
poopicus 14y ago
Indeed, I'm trying to wrap my head around it now. It's a shame, this looked like a nice fun way to just drop in to playing around with Clojure, but it turns out that it's being bit of a hassle. Not that I don't think there should be a little effort involved! It's just that my expectations did not match up to reality.
emil10001 14y ago
I agree, it's a bit confusing how it's written, and I'm not even really sure what using lein would buy you when doing the koans. If anyone is interested in using lein, here's what you need to look at: https://github.com/functional-koans/lein-koan https://github.com/functional-koans/lein-koan Specifically: git clone git@github.com:functional-koans/clojure-koans.git cd clojure-koans lein deps lein koan run
trptcolin 14y ago
Right, this needed to be cleaned up and clarified. The only thing you have to do is `lein koan run`, which was listed as an option but the ordering was confusing. I've reworked it a bit now, but feel free to open an issue/PR if things are still hazy: https://github.com/functional-koans/clojure-koans-web https://github.com/functional-koans/clojure-koans-web

by pivo 14y ago

eccp 14y ago

I don't agree, I'd advise not to try Leiningen until you're comfortable enough with the parenthesis, the REPL and finish the koans themselves. This is 'getting your feet wet on Clojure', koans style. No need to introduce yet another tool when you're not dealing with the issues which Leinengen solves: managing library dependencies and configuration. I remember I did: the koans first, then tried several exercises on the 4clojure website, then learned about Leinengen and only then I moved into 'projects'.

pivo 14y ago
Ok, but the site's first suggestion is to use Leiningen to install the koans. It links to a generic Leiningen installation page, but then doesn't tell you how to use it to install the koans. Unless they expect the new user to spend significant time learning about that tool before moving on to their koans, I think it'd really be much better to have a short how-to for that.
vemv 14y ago
If you have lein, you can run `lein repl` which provides awesome tab-completions, documentation, and source for any given function. Pretty handy for beginners I'd say!
cgag 14y ago
A whole lot of people who try to get started with Clojure without lein never actually get to a repl or runnable project.
nelsonweiss 14y ago
Politely, I'd advise the opposite. Learn Leiningen- not only because it makes Clojure simple and pleasurable to use, but because it'd be a fantastic tool no matter what language it was part of. Project skeletons (new new), command line scripting (via lein exec), deployment, the wonderful 'lein ring server', custom plugins... and for those who just want to get their feet wet, 'lein repl' brings the ocean to you.
- kinleyd 14y ago
  My initial reaction was to upvote @eccp, based on my experience with leiningen the first time round. Long story short: went around in circles following outdated (but seemingly comprehensive) guides that twisted my mind with hopeless combinations of Ant, Maven, Leiningen, emacs, slime and swank, among others. Basically gave up after a while, but was fortunate to get some encouragement here on HN, and went back in with just leiningen and emacs. I recall that was just the right mix, and as you say, lein repl pretty much brought the ocean to me.

poopicus 14y ago

Indeed, I'm trying to wrap my head around it now. It's a shame, this looked like a nice fun way to just drop in to playing around with Clojure, but it turns out that it's being bit of a hassle. Not that I don't think there should be a little effort involved! It's just that my expectations did not match up to reality.

emil10001 14y ago

I agree, it's a bit confusing how it's written, and I'm not even really sure what using lein would buy you when doing the koans. If anyone is interested in using lein, here's what you need to look at: https://github.com/functional-koans/lein-koan https://github.com/functional-koans/lein-koan Specifically: git clone git@github.com:functional-koans/clojure-koans.git cd clojure-koans lein deps lein koan run

trptcolin 14y ago

Right, this needed to be cleaned up and clarified. The only thing you have to do is `lein koan run`, which was listed as an option but the ordering was confusing. I've reworked it a bit now, but feel free to open an issue/PR if things are still hazy: https://github.com/functional-koans/clojure-koans-web https://github.com/functional-koans/clojure-koans-web