4 ms·

Well, the reality is that the client has what the freelancer needs: money, so they are always going to be in the position of power in the negotiation. The only

Well, the reality is that the client has what the freelancer needs: money, so they are always going to be in the position of power in the negotiation. The only way to take the position of power is to not need (much) money, which leads to the ironic situation where, by not needing work, you end up getting paid more for it. Call it the Paradox of Need, you can see it in many different socio-economic situations. The fact that living a low cash-burn lifestyle also improves you morally, is environmentally positive and gives you personal freedom are side benefits to this approach.

kaliblack 14y ago
I disagree that clients have the position of power. The nibbles in freelancing usually come towards the end of delivery, rather than the start when the project scope and costs are negotiated. This means the freelancer has the power, because the client still has to pay for the services already performed. A good freelancer will always have power in a negotiation. There are a lot of average freelancers.
sopooneo 14y ago
But it's also true that the designer has what the client needs: web design ability. So why would we automatically assume a power imbalance?
martincmartin 14y ago
the client has what the freelancer needs: money And the freelancer has what the client needs: the ability to make a web site. A transaction happens when both parties believe they're better off with the result: the freelancer wants the money more than the time, and the client wants the web site more than the money.
jamesbritt 14y ago
Well, the reality is that the client has what the freelancer needs: money, so they are always going to be in the position of power in the negotiation. OTOH, the client is talking to the developer because the developer has something the client needs: skills to provide something of value. It helps to (politely) remind clients that they are free to spend more time looking for a less-expensive developer while in the meantime nothing gets done and the client possibly loses money, or loses an opportunity to make money, and may then still end up with a less-skilled developer who will not deliver adequate results. The only way to take the position of power is to not need (much) money, which leads to the ironic situation where, by not needing work, you end up getting paid more for it. Call it the Paradox of Need, you can see it in many different socio-economic situations. I and many friends have found that best time to find a girlfriend is when you have girlfriend. Some goes for finding a job; it's better to currently have one while looking. Partly this signals capability (i.e. There must be a reason you do not have a job/girlfriend|boyfriend|whatever, even if I can't see it), partly it allows you to act with some (possibly attractive) aloofness. So if you can act like you don't need the job/money/whatever then you can gain an upper hand. I'm not a big fan of fronting in order to start a relationship, and if I got the feeling that a possible client was going to try to weasel me on cost because they think having money makes them the boss then I'd seriously consider walking away. Of course, if I was in fact in serious need of money then the game changes, but past experiences tells me that clients who are lording money over contractors are a big risk of refusing to pay.
- enraged_camel 14y ago
  >>OTOH, the client is talking to the developer because the developer has something the client needs: skills to provide something of value. Yes, but freelance developers are a dime a dozen. Therefore clients will always have the upper hand in business transactions.
  - erichocean 14y ago
    > Yes, but freelance developers are a dime a dozen. Therefore clients will always have the upper hand in business transactions. Once you finally accept that clients are also a dime a dozen too, it'll become a lot easier to only accept the good clients, and only accept good pay.
  - anthonyb 14y ago
    good freelance developers though, are rare as hen's teeth.
  - jamesbritt 14y ago
    It helps to (politely) remind clients that they are free to spend more time looking for a less-expensive developer while in the meantime nothing gets done and the client possibly loses money, or loses an opportunity to make money, and may then still end up with a less-skilled developer who will not deliver adequate results.
- redler 14y ago
  For a time I shook my head at the irony that the smaller the client and the smaller the job, the higher the maintenance and the harder it was to get paid. The nickel-and-diming, the offers of creative means of payment ("I'll take you out to a nice dinner!", "My wife makes fantastic cookies!"), the weekend calls to the cell phone. Of course, I later came to understand that this wasn't ironic at all. The best predictor of how "difficult" a client will be in this dimension is the degree to which the person you deal with is paying with what they perceive as "their own money", literally or figuratively. A client selection strategy based on this observation dovetails nicely with the "charge more, much more!" approaches frequently discussed on these pages.

kaliblack 14y ago

I disagree that clients have the position of power. The nibbles in freelancing usually come towards the end of delivery, rather than the start when the project scope and costs are negotiated. This means the freelancer has the power, because the client still has to pay for the services already performed. A good freelancer will always have power in a negotiation. There are a lot of average freelancers.

sopooneo 14y ago

But it's also true that the designer has what the client needs: web design ability. So why would we automatically assume a power imbalance?

martincmartin 14y ago

the client has what the freelancer needs: money And the freelancer has what the client needs: the ability to make a web site. A transaction happens when both parties believe they're better off with the result: the freelancer wants the money more than the time, and the client wants the web site more than the money.

jamesbritt 14y ago

Well, the reality is that the client has what the freelancer needs: money, so they are always going to be in the position of power in the negotiation. OTOH, the client is talking to the developer because the developer has something the client needs: skills to provide something of value. It helps to (politely) remind clients that they are free to spend more time looking for a less-expensive developer while in the meantime nothing gets done and the client possibly loses money, or loses an opportunity to make money, and may then still end up with a less-skilled developer who will not deliver adequate results. The only way to take the position of power is to not need (much) money, which leads to the ironic situation where, by not needing work, you end up getting paid more for it. Call it the Paradox of Need, you can see it in many different socio-economic situations. I and many friends have found that best time to find a girlfriend is when you have girlfriend. Some goes for finding a job; it's better to currently have one while looking. Partly this signals capability (i.e. There must be a reason you do not have a job/girlfriend|boyfriend|whatever, even if I can't see it), partly it allows you to act with some (possibly attractive) aloofness. So if you can act like you don't need the job/money/whatever then you can gain an upper hand. I'm not a big fan of fronting in order to start a relationship, and if I got the feeling that a possible client was going to try to weasel me on cost because they think having money makes them the boss then I'd seriously consider walking away. Of course, if I was in fact in serious need of money then the game changes, but past experiences tells me that clients who are lording money over contractors are a big risk of refusing to pay.

enraged_camel 14y ago
>>OTOH, the client is talking to the developer because the developer has something the client needs: skills to provide something of value. Yes, but freelance developers are a dime a dozen. Therefore clients will always have the upper hand in business transactions.
- erichocean 14y ago
  > Yes, but freelance developers are a dime a dozen. Therefore clients will always have the upper hand in business transactions. Once you finally accept that clients are also a dime a dozen too, it'll become a lot easier to only accept the good clients, and only accept good pay.
- anthonyb 14y ago
  good freelance developers though, are rare as hen's teeth.
- jamesbritt 14y ago
  It helps to (politely) remind clients that they are free to spend more time looking for a less-expensive developer while in the meantime nothing gets done and the client possibly loses money, or loses an opportunity to make money, and may then still end up with a less-skilled developer who will not deliver adequate results.
redler 14y ago
For a time I shook my head at the irony that the smaller the client and the smaller the job, the higher the maintenance and the harder it was to get paid. The nickel-and-diming, the offers of creative means of payment ("I'll take you out to a nice dinner!", "My wife makes fantastic cookies!"), the weekend calls to the cell phone. Of course, I later came to understand that this wasn't ironic at all. The best predictor of how "difficult" a client will be in this dimension is the degree to which the person you deal with is paying with what they perceive as "their own money", literally or figuratively. A client selection strategy based on this observation dovetails nicely with the "charge more, much more!" approaches frequently discussed on these pages.