3 ms·

Well, sort of. There are large Asian communities in the suburbs between Buford Highway and Duluth, and the Asian population of Georgia Tech (around which most

by rjurney 18y ago

Well, sort of. There are large Asian communities in the suburbs between Buford Highway and Duluth, and the Asian population of Georgia Tech (around which most startups are based) is not insignificant. While racism is a problem in the South, thats not going to be an issue for hackers in the city. Quite the opposite: Atlanta is a diverse, tolerant place.

lacker 18y ago
Atlanta is diverse and tolerant by the standards of Georgia, but it is a far cry from California or NYC. Just the perception of the entire South as an unfriendly place for non-white people will prevent many people from moving there. Plus, it is hard to attract immigrants - a lot of smart hacker immigrants would never move to a "red state".
- rjurney 18y ago
  Right, but I don't think you've actually spent any time in Atlanta, because what you are saying is wrong. I live here, and I've spent time in California, North Carolina, Ohio, all the places you mention and Atlanta is as tolerant as California. Midtown Atlanta is the most gay accepting place outside of West Hollywood or the Castro, and if you think there is a shortage of Asians here you've obviously never been here. You're just projecting your own prejudices. You don't know anything about Atlanta.
  - lacker 18y ago
    I'm not trying to say anything bad about Atlantans. I'm just saying that there are much fewer Asian-Americans and foreign-born people in Atlanta than in San Francisco, and that makes it hard to attract more to Atlanta. (And these groups are a signature of Silicon Valley.) some census data from http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13/1304000.html http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13/1304000.html and http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0667000.html http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0667000.html : Atlanta: 1.9% Asian 3.6% of companies are Asian-owned 6.6% foreign-born San Francisco: 30.8% Asian 21.4% of companies are Asian-owned 36.8% foreign-born
  - catch23 18y ago
    What? Where do you live in Atlanta? I've spent the last 7 years in Atlanta and I can tell you that it's not as tolerant as you think. I spent about 3 years living in Canlen Walk (Near the intersection of 85 & Buford Hwy), 4 years on the Georgia Tech campus. What ethnicity are you? I can count many times walking from shops near the Varsity around North Ave when I encounter African Americans, they always ching-chong me thinking I'm from out of the country. I'm like dude, I've lived in America for as long as you have.
    - ajju 18y ago
      The area around Varsity and North Ave consists of GT students, who are a very liberal community or people who are basically just poor. Unfortunately you will find that racism amongst poor people is higher simply on account of ignorance.
      - qaexl 18y ago
        I'm Taiwanese and lived in the US since I was 5. I've been living in Atlanta for a little over a year and hanged out mostly in the Cumberland area and the Decatur area. I've walked through the North Ave. / Varsity area for various things before. I've lived in Auburn, AL for five years, and Columbus, OH for 17 years. I also practice my martial arts regularly at Downtown Decatur, which often means bringing a wooden broadsword. The people who generally ask me about it are the African Americans hanging out around the MARTA stations. ("Look man, it really isn't that interesting. It is fake" "I just want to see it." "Yeah, here") I occasionally get riffed walking by, "Hey, its kung fu master!" while I'm walking to Decatur Square. It annoys me, yet never once had I felt it was racist. I chalk it up to cultural differences. People have always been friendlier in Georgia and Alabama than they were in OH. If I make even the slightest eye contact, people will say "Hi" ... and that's how I interpret what those guys hanging around the station are doing. Strangers generally don't do that in Columbus, OH. On my walking route to the station, I pass a lot of other pedestrians or joggers. I have my practice sword stuck into my backpack. I noticed the number of people who say "Hi" to me increase dramatically, particularly among the women who are jogging by themselves. Part of that, I know, is the baseline hospitality I generally get from strangers here in the South. The other part has got to be from thinking, "hey, who is this dude walking around with a sword handle sticking out of his back, maybe I should preempt anything by saying 'hi'". It doesn't always happen all the time, but that's the way things are. And just to keep things on the level and honest, there were times when I talked to some of my Asian martial arts buddies here, and the conversation somehow gets into "white people." You have to realize that I do not imagine myself as particularly Asian when I close my eyes and visualize who I am. It simply isn't a strong part of my identity unless someone brings it up. When the conversation turns that way, it jolts me, "hey, wait a minute ..." I remember being surprised from reading about racism in the local papers when I first moved out to Atlanta. I started watching people. I think people here in Atlanta are no different than other places I've lived at, or encountered briefly in my (limited) travels: the racism comes from our xenophobic tendencies being great apes. We say things to each other about those people all the time -- those Californians, those Georgians, those VCs, those angel investors, those entrepreneurs, those nerds, those jocks, those preps, those ... And that very same tendency to form packs also means that individuals gets exempt. You might find yourself talking to a neighbor who say things about one of your affliations, and when you bring it up, they may say, "Oh, but you are OK." Racism is one of the manifestations of human primate tendency to form packs. It has resulted in some ugly things in our history. Trace it back through history, and no ... group ... has ever been left untainted by this. And besides, a lot of us develop software here. You should know by now how difficult it is to define software architecture, know when to divide things and when to generalize them. There are always some sort of special case. Human nature is even more irrational, even less amendable to be put into its proper Classes and Object Instantiations and whatever. My business partner (who is not Asian) told me about this thread and how a discussion about the Atlanta startup scene gets derailed into talking about the racism here. I started laughing. I told him, yeah sure, I'll come here to gawk at the burning wreckage too.
- chollida1 18y ago
  > a lot of smart hacker immigrants would never move to a "red state". As someone who isn't an American I can't really weigh in on this statement but there is plenty of data that suggests that hackers would live in a "red state". California was a red state for all of the 60's through to the end of the 80's and silicon valley thrived during that time. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/07/MNGQO9NJOM1.DTL http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/... http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=19761 http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=19761
- ajju 18y ago
  No. Atlanta is diverse and tolerant by any Standard. I say that having lived in Atlanta, NYC and San Jose. Sure, we don't have as many Asians as either NYC or the bay area, but implying that Atlanta is not tolerant is just plain wrong. I am Indian American.
- wheels 18y ago
  Austin is both in the south and a "red state" and is one of the techier cities in the US. Austin itself has a reputation for being hip and eccentric, however. I think the real question is, "Can a city the size of Atlanta make itself over?"
catch23 18y ago
Erm, I guess you have a higher threshold for tolerance. Every time I board Marta, I'm usually mocked by someone of African American decent there. And almost every time I have to explain that I grew up here, I'm as American as you, yada yada. And these Marta stations are pretty close to downtown (Midtown, Peachtree, Lindbergh station, etc) Diverse? Partially. Tolerant? No. Diversity is nothing compared to SF. Atlanta has whites, blacks, and latinos. You won't find a significant percentage of another. Even on Buford Highway where the majority of Asian grocery stores are, you'll find that Latinos outnumber the Asian population 2:1. California has a good mix of everyone, it's the reason I love it here.
- qaexl 18y ago
  I don't get mocked when I board MARTA. I ride from Dunwoody all the way to Five Points and out to Decatur, both during the evening rush hour and late at night. ... There are things you can do to your body language that can keep that from happening. If you hate being where you are -- Atlanta or not -- it'll show up in your body language.

by rjurney 18y ago

lacker 18y ago

Atlanta is diverse and tolerant by the standards of Georgia, but it is a far cry from California or NYC. Just the perception of the entire South as an unfriendly place for non-white people will prevent many people from moving there. Plus, it is hard to attract immigrants - a lot of smart hacker immigrants would never move to a "red state".

rjurney 18y ago
Right, but I don't think you've actually spent any time in Atlanta, because what you are saying is wrong. I live here, and I've spent time in California, North Carolina, Ohio, all the places you mention and Atlanta is as tolerant as California. Midtown Atlanta is the most gay accepting place outside of West Hollywood or the Castro, and if you think there is a shortage of Asians here you've obviously never been here. You're just projecting your own prejudices. You don't know anything about Atlanta.
- lacker 18y ago
  I'm not trying to say anything bad about Atlantans. I'm just saying that there are much fewer Asian-Americans and foreign-born people in Atlanta than in San Francisco, and that makes it hard to attract more to Atlanta. (And these groups are a signature of Silicon Valley.) some census data from http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13/1304000.html http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13/1304000.html and http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0667000.html http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0667000.html : Atlanta: 1.9% Asian 3.6% of companies are Asian-owned 6.6% foreign-born San Francisco: 30.8% Asian 21.4% of companies are Asian-owned 36.8% foreign-born
- catch23 18y ago
  What? Where do you live in Atlanta? I've spent the last 7 years in Atlanta and I can tell you that it's not as tolerant as you think. I spent about 3 years living in Canlen Walk (Near the intersection of 85 & Buford Hwy), 4 years on the Georgia Tech campus. What ethnicity are you? I can count many times walking from shops near the Varsity around North Ave when I encounter African Americans, they always ching-chong me thinking I'm from out of the country. I'm like dude, I've lived in America for as long as you have.
  - ajju 18y ago
    The area around Varsity and North Ave consists of GT students, who are a very liberal community or people who are basically just poor. Unfortunately you will find that racism amongst poor people is higher simply on account of ignorance.
    - qaexl 18y ago
      I'm Taiwanese and lived in the US since I was 5. I've been living in Atlanta for a little over a year and hanged out mostly in the Cumberland area and the Decatur area. I've walked through the North Ave. / Varsity area for various things before. I've lived in Auburn, AL for five years, and Columbus, OH for 17 years. I also practice my martial arts regularly at Downtown Decatur, which often means bringing a wooden broadsword. The people who generally ask me about it are the African Americans hanging out around the MARTA stations. ("Look man, it really isn't that interesting. It is fake" "I just want to see it." "Yeah, here") I occasionally get riffed walking by, "Hey, its kung fu master!" while I'm walking to Decatur Square. It annoys me, yet never once had I felt it was racist. I chalk it up to cultural differences. People have always been friendlier in Georgia and Alabama than they were in OH. If I make even the slightest eye contact, people will say "Hi" ... and that's how I interpret what those guys hanging around the station are doing. Strangers generally don't do that in Columbus, OH. On my walking route to the station, I pass a lot of other pedestrians or joggers. I have my practice sword stuck into my backpack. I noticed the number of people who say "Hi" to me increase dramatically, particularly among the women who are jogging by themselves. Part of that, I know, is the baseline hospitality I generally get from strangers here in the South. The other part has got to be from thinking, "hey, who is this dude walking around with a sword handle sticking out of his back, maybe I should preempt anything by saying 'hi'". It doesn't always happen all the time, but that's the way things are. And just to keep things on the level and honest, there were times when I talked to some of my Asian martial arts buddies here, and the conversation somehow gets into "white people." You have to realize that I do not imagine myself as particularly Asian when I close my eyes and visualize who I am. It simply isn't a strong part of my identity unless someone brings it up. When the conversation turns that way, it jolts me, "hey, wait a minute ..." I remember being surprised from reading about racism in the local papers when I first moved out to Atlanta. I started watching people. I think people here in Atlanta are no different than other places I've lived at, or encountered briefly in my (limited) travels: the racism comes from our xenophobic tendencies being great apes. We say things to each other about those people all the time -- those Californians, those Georgians, those VCs, those angel investors, those entrepreneurs, those nerds, those jocks, those preps, those ... And that very same tendency to form packs also means that individuals gets exempt. You might find yourself talking to a neighbor who say things about one of your affliations, and when you bring it up, they may say, "Oh, but you are OK." Racism is one of the manifestations of human primate tendency to form packs. It has resulted in some ugly things in our history. Trace it back through history, and no ... group ... has ever been left untainted by this. And besides, a lot of us develop software here. You should know by now how difficult it is to define software architecture, know when to divide things and when to generalize them. There are always some sort of special case. Human nature is even more irrational, even less amendable to be put into its proper Classes and Object Instantiations and whatever. My business partner (who is not Asian) told me about this thread and how a discussion about the Atlanta startup scene gets derailed into talking about the racism here. I started laughing. I told him, yeah sure, I'll come here to gawk at the burning wreckage too.
chollida1 18y ago
> a lot of smart hacker immigrants would never move to a "red state". As someone who isn't an American I can't really weigh in on this statement but there is plenty of data that suggests that hackers would live in a "red state". California was a red state for all of the 60's through to the end of the 80's and silicon valley thrived during that time. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/07/MNGQO9NJOM1.DTL http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/... http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=19761 http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=19761
ajju 18y ago
No. Atlanta is diverse and tolerant by any Standard. I say that having lived in Atlanta, NYC and San Jose. Sure, we don't have as many Asians as either NYC or the bay area, but implying that Atlanta is not tolerant is just plain wrong. I am Indian American.
wheels 18y ago
Austin is both in the south and a "red state" and is one of the techier cities in the US. Austin itself has a reputation for being hip and eccentric, however. I think the real question is, "Can a city the size of Atlanta make itself over?"

catch23 18y ago

Erm, I guess you have a higher threshold for tolerance. Every time I board Marta, I'm usually mocked by someone of African American decent there. And almost every time I have to explain that I grew up here, I'm as American as you, yada yada. And these Marta stations are pretty close to downtown (Midtown, Peachtree, Lindbergh station, etc) Diverse? Partially. Tolerant? No. Diversity is nothing compared to SF. Atlanta has whites, blacks, and latinos. You won't find a significant percentage of another. Even on Buford Highway where the majority of Asian grocery stores are, you'll find that Latinos outnumber the Asian population 2:1. California has a good mix of everyone, it's the reason I love it here.

qaexl 18y ago
I don't get mocked when I board MARTA. I ride from Dunwoody all the way to Five Points and out to Decatur, both during the evening rush hour and late at night. ... There are things you can do to your body language that can keep that from happening. If you hate being where you are -- Atlanta or not -- it'll show up in your body language.