3 ms·

Off-topic, but this discussion might attract the right people. How much NetBSD-originated code remains in Darwin and OS X? I remember that in the initial beta

by gamache 14y ago

Off-topic, but this discussion might attract the right people. How much NetBSD-originated code remains in Darwin and OS X? I remember that in the initial betas, there was heavy usage of NetBSD's userland (at least); I've no idea how much remains today. EDIT: Everyone's mentioning FreeBSD, but I swear to $GOD[0] that I remember seeing 'NetBSD' at the top of many early man pages. NetBSD's site seems to remember something similar: http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/products.html#darwin http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/products.html#darwin

X-Istence 14y ago
Mac OS X used FreeBSD for their userland, as well as kernel land as far as I am aware.
DanBC 14y ago
I'm interested in the "Organisations before 2002" link - (http://www.netbsd.org/contrib/org/ http://www.netbsd.org/contrib/org/) Is that really just before 2002; or does it include after 2002? And is there any reason for a big company to donate money / hardware / code / expertise but to ask not to be listed?
wipt 14y ago
Everything I've read has said that OS X featured parts of FreeBSD, never heard of NetBSD being used. (Yes, they are sibling projects and probably share more code than I'm aware.)
- butbutbut 14y ago
  But, let me guess, "everything you've read" does not include the source code? Are we talking the "part of OSX" that is called "Darwin"? If so, the code is all online. Easiest way to determine how much code is from NetBSD is to read it. And diff it against NetBSD's CVS repo.
  - mpweiher 14y ago
    Sort of. Running diff alone will tell you when code is similar or the same, but it won't tell you whether that similarity is because code moved directly from NetBSD to Darwin (or vice versa if that happened) or because they share many common ancestors (from the graphic, that would be at least BSD 4.3, BSD 4.4, BSD NET/2, 386BSD,..)
mpweiher 14y ago
Looking at the Unix History diagram: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Unix_history-simple.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Unix_hist... A lot of the BSD that's in OSX actually predates either FreeBSD or NetBSD, coming via NeXTStep from BSD 4.3 and via Mac OS X Server from 4.4. In addition there are FreeBSD influences. NetBSD seems largely independent. That's also roughly what I remember (ex-NeXTie).
- gamache 14y ago
  There's a line from NetBSD 1.3 (boy howdy, I loved that OS) to OS X Server, if you look closely.
  - mpweiher 14y ago
    Yeah, I saw that line and didn't know whether that was a connection or not (that's why I used some weasel words to hedge). Looking at it more closely, it does look like a connection, but I think it is a fairly minor one. The first Mac OS X Server was still pretty close to NeXTStep/Rhapsody. The bigger changes came later with Mac OS X, which was a major rewrite.
- deleted 14y ago
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butbutbut 14y ago
All the Darwin code is online so why not just check for yourself? A more interesting question is how useful is OSX if we stripped away Darwin? That is, if we just left the proprietary bits, like the graphics code. Assuming I don't need Apple's graphics, I'd just as soon use NetBSD than Darwin.

by gamache 14y ago

X-Istence 14y ago

Mac OS X used FreeBSD for their userland, as well as kernel land as far as I am aware.

DanBC 14y ago

I'm interested in the "Organisations before 2002" link - (http://www.netbsd.org/contrib/org/ http://www.netbsd.org/contrib/org/) Is that really just before 2002; or does it include after 2002? And is there any reason for a big company to donate money / hardware / code / expertise but to ask not to be listed?

wipt 14y ago

Everything I've read has said that OS X featured parts of FreeBSD, never heard of NetBSD being used. (Yes, they are sibling projects and probably share more code than I'm aware.)

butbutbut 14y ago
But, let me guess, "everything you've read" does not include the source code? Are we talking the "part of OSX" that is called "Darwin"? If so, the code is all online. Easiest way to determine how much code is from NetBSD is to read it. And diff it against NetBSD's CVS repo.
- mpweiher 14y ago
  Sort of. Running diff alone will tell you when code is similar or the same, but it won't tell you whether that similarity is because code moved directly from NetBSD to Darwin (or vice versa if that happened) or because they share many common ancestors (from the graphic, that would be at least BSD 4.3, BSD 4.4, BSD NET/2, 386BSD,..)

mpweiher 14y ago

Looking at the Unix History diagram: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Unix_history-simple.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Unix_hist... A lot of the BSD that's in OSX actually predates either FreeBSD or NetBSD, coming via NeXTStep from BSD 4.3 and via Mac OS X Server from 4.4. In addition there are FreeBSD influences. NetBSD seems largely independent. That's also roughly what I remember (ex-NeXTie).

gamache 14y ago
There's a line from NetBSD 1.3 (boy howdy, I loved that OS) to OS X Server, if you look closely.
- mpweiher 14y ago
  Yeah, I saw that line and didn't know whether that was a connection or not (that's why I used some weasel words to hedge). Looking at it more closely, it does look like a connection, but I think it is a fairly minor one. The first Mac OS X Server was still pretty close to NeXTStep/Rhapsody. The bigger changes came later with Mac OS X, which was a major rewrite.
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butbutbut 14y ago

All the Darwin code is online so why not just check for yourself? A more interesting question is how useful is OSX if we stripped away Darwin? That is, if we just left the proprietary bits, like the graphics code. Assuming I don't need Apple's graphics, I'd just as soon use NetBSD than Darwin.