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https://www.hackerschool.com/blog/12-what-we-mean-by-hacker https://www.hackerschool.com/blog/12-what-we-mean-by-hacker "Hacker School made it very clear what

by RyanZAG 14y ago

https://www.hackerschool.com/blog/12-what-we-mean-by-hacker https://www.hackerschool.com/blog/12-what-we-mean-by-hacker "Hacker School made it very clear what their definition of “hacker” is (curious go-getters) and what it is not (pompous know-it-alls)." "Someone who enjoys sharing what she learns with others. " "Someone who is friendly and communicates well." Bandwagon much? Don't go redefining 'hacker' just so you can jump your school on the 'hacking is hot' phenomenon. From a Google definition: "An enthusiastic and skillful computer programmer or user.", and yes, skillful is a far more important part of it than "friendly and communicates well". That said (from a pompous know-it-all, no less!), the school itself seems pretty awesome and big kudos to them! Just the kind of thing the world needs more of.

SethMurphy 14y ago
Everyone goes in enthusiastic and comes out more skilled. The definition has not been altered. Sure, in three months you can't learn it all, but you learn to keep learning. You go to become a hacker, not because you are one. I think that was the point trying to be made. DISCLAIMER: I am on the Hacker School bandwagon as a participant myself ;)
nicholasjbs 14y ago
I think our definition fits pretty well with ESR's and the definition of "hacker" from the Jargon file[1]: 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. (Though as we point out, we don't think being obsessive is necessary.) Also, in ESR's "How to be a hacker"[2] he includes both learning to write and communicate well and sharing what you learn and build with others as requirements for being a hacker. [1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html [2] http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#skills4 http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#skills4 EDIT: To anyone reading the parent comment without clicking through to the blog post it's excerpting, please note the parent comment ignores the first two criteria we list: Someone who is intellectually curious. Hackers enjoy tinkering and understanding how things work. They revel in going deeper into things, and love asking questions: How can I make my code easier to debug? What is making my program slow? How does this work? Someone who enjoys programming. We spend most of our time at Hacker School programming, there aren't grades or tests to make you study, and you don't get a degree or certificate for doing Hacker School, so it's important that you like coding.
- alecco 14y ago
  No. You are a marketer/promoter/pusher. Junior programmers coding on fad frameworks at borderline user level are far from hackers in every possible definition of the word.
  - vitno 14y ago
    Look at the githubs of the people in the batches. There is very little "fad frameworking" going on.
    - alecco 14y ago
      Links?
      - nicholasjbs 14y ago
        https://github.com/jamii https://github.com/jamii https://github.com/darius https://github.com/darius
        alecco 14y ago
        Not framework coders, but still far from hackers. For example: https://github.com/darius/parson/blob/master/parson.py https://github.com/darius/parson/blob/master/parson.py
        abecedarius 14y ago
        As the author, I'd welcome tips to make it better. (Though efficient implementation is not a priority since the API hasn't settled.) Both Jamie's and my work have been high-ranked on HN's front page, for what it's worth; and I'd call the Hacker School facilitators hackers by any reasonable standard.
        alecco 14y ago
        I'm sorry for all this. I'm an ass.
dillonforrest 14y ago
Disclaimer: I'm a Hacker School S'12 alum, but these words are my own only. I don't believe Nick or any Hacker School facilitator look to revolutionize "hacker." I don't believe they want to get into any semantic argument. If anything, they're sharing their school of thought on hacking. On the one hand, they indeed have their opinions about programming and what it means to be a "hacker." On the other, they are also openminded to hearing different opinions and expanding their own. In my observation, they don't intend to redefine anything. They just want to expand an ongoing conversation with others who care about programming.
subsystem 14y ago
"An enthusiastic and skillful computer programmer or user." That's an awful definition of a hacker. Hacking, regardless of definition, was always a subculture. It was never about just being skillful, that's more inline with the modern washed out definition.

by RyanZAG 14y ago

SethMurphy 14y ago

Everyone goes in enthusiastic and comes out more skilled. The definition has not been altered. Sure, in three months you can't learn it all, but you learn to keep learning. You go to become a hacker, not because you are one. I think that was the point trying to be made. DISCLAIMER: I am on the Hacker School bandwagon as a participant myself ;)

nicholasjbs 14y ago

I think our definition fits pretty well with ESR's and the definition of "hacker" from the Jargon file[1]: 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. (Though as we point out, we don't think being obsessive is necessary.) Also, in ESR's "How to be a hacker"[2] he includes both learning to write and communicate well and sharing what you learn and build with others as requirements for being a hacker. [1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html [2] http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#skills4 http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#skills4 EDIT: To anyone reading the parent comment without clicking through to the blog post it's excerpting, please note the parent comment ignores the first two criteria we list: Someone who is intellectually curious. Hackers enjoy tinkering and understanding how things work. They revel in going deeper into things, and love asking questions: How can I make my code easier to debug? What is making my program slow? How does this work? Someone who enjoys programming. We spend most of our time at Hacker School programming, there aren't grades or tests to make you study, and you don't get a degree or certificate for doing Hacker School, so it's important that you like coding.

alecco 14y ago
No. You are a marketer/promoter/pusher. Junior programmers coding on fad frameworks at borderline user level are far from hackers in every possible definition of the word.
- vitno 14y ago
  Look at the githubs of the people in the batches. There is very little "fad frameworking" going on.
  - alecco 14y ago
    Links?
    - nicholasjbs 14y ago
      https://github.com/jamii https://github.com/jamii https://github.com/darius https://github.com/darius
      - alecco 14y ago
        Not framework coders, but still far from hackers. For example: https://github.com/darius/parson/blob/master/parson.py https://github.com/darius/parson/blob/master/parson.py
        abecedarius 14y ago
        As the author, I'd welcome tips to make it better. (Though efficient implementation is not a priority since the API hasn't settled.) Both Jamie's and my work have been high-ranked on HN's front page, for what it's worth; and I'd call the Hacker School facilitators hackers by any reasonable standard.
        alecco 14y ago
        I'm sorry for all this. I'm an ass.

dillonforrest 14y ago

Disclaimer: I'm a Hacker School S'12 alum, but these words are my own only. I don't believe Nick or any Hacker School facilitator look to revolutionize "hacker." I don't believe they want to get into any semantic argument. If anything, they're sharing their school of thought on hacking. On the one hand, they indeed have their opinions about programming and what it means to be a "hacker." On the other, they are also openminded to hearing different opinions and expanding their own. In my observation, they don't intend to redefine anything. They just want to expand an ongoing conversation with others who care about programming.

subsystem 14y ago

"An enthusiastic and skillful computer programmer or user." That's an awful definition of a hacker. Hacking, regardless of definition, was always a subculture. It was never about just being skillful, that's more inline with the modern washed out definition.