5 ms·

Patio, Quick question. I have had some trouble getting my first consulting gig. Its not the meeting per se that gets them, I can get meetings with people. They

by kirinan 14y ago

Patio, Quick question. I have had some trouble getting my first consulting gig. Its not the meeting per se that gets them, I can get meetings with people. They say I lack experience. Should I do pro bono work, or should I lower my prices (I charge a lot because I like to dedicate my time to doing a fantastic job and giving customers (if I had any) exactly what they want (or what they think they want). How do you get the first gig/job?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
patio11 14y ago
They say I lack experience. This is customerese for "You have failed to convince me you are capable of delivering positive ROI on this engagement" rather than being any commentary on your experience. The easiest way to diffuse the objection is by getting better at sales, not by getting experience. Everybody in the industry got a paying gig when they had, at the time, no history of paying gigs. I'm not generally a fan of pro-bono work for technologists, since the market is hot enough at the moment that you shouldn't need to do it. Also, the client dynamics of pro-bono work are leagues away from the dynamics of paid work. Even offering free work scares the heck out of good clients. Conversely, people who will agree to the arrangement may treat your time as if it is totally valueless, which will frequently compromise your ability to succeed at the engagement. The free engagement doesn't enhance your credibility if it ends up sucking due to lack of "client" cooperation, so that doesn't help you any. You've got some sort of portfolio, right? Side projects you could show off? Blog posts about the development process? You can turn these into something which visibly demonstrates that you're capable of executing on your promises.
- kirinan 14y ago
  I do have a github with a few apps that Ive messed around (Im a mobile and web guy). Thats very insightful, I never thought about the ROI thing. I guess I need to learn how to convince people Im worth the price. Tons of people in my area undercut by a huge margin just to get jobs. I do write essays too. How do you better at sales? Are there particular things that you say? I know being friendly and available seem to work, but is there something better? What would you recommend to get better at selling?
  - patio11 14y ago
    I'm totally on your side of this and rooting for you. I mention that to soften the following: "a github with a few apps that Ive messed around" does not necessarily suggest to me that you're capable of shipping software projects. (Github is a terrible platform for showing customers you can produce things that they care about, guys. Github shows off source code. Most customers want to buy business outcomes. Source code is rarely a business outcome. If you tried to present a very very compelling business outcome caused by source code via Github, just the nature of hosting it on Github would de-emphasize the business outcome in favor of the source code... which is, by the way, totally impenetrable to many buyers of custom software.) A better way to present a business outcome is a case study: here's the business, here's the problem, here's (a brief sketch off) what we did, here's the results. (You can write a case study on any blogging platform and it will work better than just throwing the repo for that project on Github.) Are you capable of shipping software projects? Shipping a software project would persuasively demonstrate that you are. Conversely, if you've never shipped a software project... well, the customers might not be totally crazy about wondering why you'd command high prices. How do you better at sales? I wish I had a better answer for you than "Read a little, practice a lot." but I don't.
    - kirinan 14y ago
      Hmm, Yeah. You have me pegged there, I don't have any apps on the app store, or any web applications I can pull up and demo to customers. I have a new goal to work towards now, even if it is something simple. I will also make documents about it, and make it a full "business" like solution. As for you solution about the sales, I had a daunting feeling you were going to suggest that. Oh well, I think life is about reading a little and doing a lot. Thanks for all your help!
  - adrianhoward 14y ago
    What would you recommend to get better at selling? One trick that I've found useful is to try to be observant in situations where somebody is trying to sell you something. Pay attention to what works and what doesn't. Tweak and try yourself. You'll see many patterns in the stuff that works well (e.g. listening not talking, stories not feature lists, benefits not feature lists, etc.) It's got to the stage where I actually quite like wandering around the vendor/sponsor stands at conferences for the learning experience ;-)
- adrianhoward 14y ago
  Even offering free work scares the heck out of good clients. Conversely, people who will agree to the arrangement may treat your time as if it is totally valueless, which will frequently compromise your ability to succeed at the engagement. The free engagement doesn't enhance your credibility if it ends up sucking due to lack of "client" cooperation, so that doesn't help you any. One tactic that generally worked well for me when I was at an early point in my consulting career was roughly: "Normally I'd charge you $x for this. I am confident that you will receive $y-$z of value from this work. Let's do the work. You decide how much I should invoice for at the end of it." I was obviously sucking up more risk with this approach - and had to be willing to walk away with zero (and did on two occasions - one of which was justifiable). But since I had picked sane clients it mostly worked out very well (in one case they happily wrote a check for $x * 5 since we'd all radically underestimated the value of the work ;-) I don't do this now - but it helped get over some "Can you actually do this?" hassles at the point when I didn't have a reputation.
laaph 14y ago
I want to double on kirinan's question. I'm not quite in his shoes; I've had a few clients, I've got a couple theoretically lined up but the answers I keep hearing are "we really want to hire you but we have to get the funding approved", which in the cases I fully pursue mainly seem to be some guy holding the purse strings and not caring if the project gets done or not. This just happens to be my current hurdle. I really wish there was a lot more written from the perspective of "I am trying to make it" than the perspective of "so now you are rich and famous and are looking for how to make a few more dollars...."
- jdlshore 14y ago
  I'm not patio11, but I have been a consultant for about 12 years. "We want to hire you but we have to get the funding approved" means you aren't talking to the right people. It's likely you're talking to technical buyers (who have the power to say, "no, don't hire this guy") and not the economic buyer (who has the power to say, "yes, you're hired, send the paperwork to this person in A/P.") The very first thing I do in any opportunity is make sure I'm talking to the economic buyer. I'm polite about it, but I don't want to talk to technical buyers. Period. There's no point in talking to someone who can only say no. This takes practice, and chutzpah, and I found it very difficult, and sometimes still do. But I have almost never sold a gig when I wasn't talking to the economic buyer, so I get over it. Questions to determine if you're talking to the economic buyer: "Who has signing authority on this?" "Once I send a proposal, who will approve it?" "Whose budget is this under?" Then you have to speak to the economic buyer. Be polite, but firm. Remember, time spent talking to a technical buyer is essentially wasted time. "Okay, let's schedule an appointment with X so we can discuss your needs further." "After you're done with the background info you wanted to discuss, let's schedule a time to speak with X about her expectations." "When will X be available to talk about this project?" It's a bit trickier than this, but those insights come with practice. For me, focusing on speaking to economic buyers was the single most valuable sales technique I learned, literally turning my consulting business from a failure to a success. Good luck!
  - lincolnq 14y ago
    Wow. This is shockingly good and easily actionable advice.

by kirinan 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

patio11 14y ago

They say I lack experience. This is customerese for "You have failed to convince me you are capable of delivering positive ROI on this engagement" rather than being any commentary on your experience. The easiest way to diffuse the objection is by getting better at sales, not by getting experience. Everybody in the industry got a paying gig when they had, at the time, no history of paying gigs. I'm not generally a fan of pro-bono work for technologists, since the market is hot enough at the moment that you shouldn't need to do it. Also, the client dynamics of pro-bono work are leagues away from the dynamics of paid work. Even offering free work scares the heck out of good clients. Conversely, people who will agree to the arrangement may treat your time as if it is totally valueless, which will frequently compromise your ability to succeed at the engagement. The free engagement doesn't enhance your credibility if it ends up sucking due to lack of "client" cooperation, so that doesn't help you any. You've got some sort of portfolio, right? Side projects you could show off? Blog posts about the development process? You can turn these into something which visibly demonstrates that you're capable of executing on your promises.

kirinan 14y ago
I do have a github with a few apps that Ive messed around (Im a mobile and web guy). Thats very insightful, I never thought about the ROI thing. I guess I need to learn how to convince people Im worth the price. Tons of people in my area undercut by a huge margin just to get jobs. I do write essays too. How do you better at sales? Are there particular things that you say? I know being friendly and available seem to work, but is there something better? What would you recommend to get better at selling?
- patio11 14y ago
  I'm totally on your side of this and rooting for you. I mention that to soften the following: "a github with a few apps that Ive messed around" does not necessarily suggest to me that you're capable of shipping software projects. (Github is a terrible platform for showing customers you can produce things that they care about, guys. Github shows off source code. Most customers want to buy business outcomes. Source code is rarely a business outcome. If you tried to present a very very compelling business outcome caused by source code via Github, just the nature of hosting it on Github would de-emphasize the business outcome in favor of the source code... which is, by the way, totally impenetrable to many buyers of custom software.) A better way to present a business outcome is a case study: here's the business, here's the problem, here's (a brief sketch off) what we did, here's the results. (You can write a case study on any blogging platform and it will work better than just throwing the repo for that project on Github.) Are you capable of shipping software projects? Shipping a software project would persuasively demonstrate that you are. Conversely, if you've never shipped a software project... well, the customers might not be totally crazy about wondering why you'd command high prices. How do you better at sales? I wish I had a better answer for you than "Read a little, practice a lot." but I don't.
  - kirinan 14y ago
    Hmm, Yeah. You have me pegged there, I don't have any apps on the app store, or any web applications I can pull up and demo to customers. I have a new goal to work towards now, even if it is something simple. I will also make documents about it, and make it a full "business" like solution. As for you solution about the sales, I had a daunting feeling you were going to suggest that. Oh well, I think life is about reading a little and doing a lot. Thanks for all your help!
- adrianhoward 14y ago
  What would you recommend to get better at selling? One trick that I've found useful is to try to be observant in situations where somebody is trying to sell you something. Pay attention to what works and what doesn't. Tweak and try yourself. You'll see many patterns in the stuff that works well (e.g. listening not talking, stories not feature lists, benefits not feature lists, etc.) It's got to the stage where I actually quite like wandering around the vendor/sponsor stands at conferences for the learning experience ;-)
adrianhoward 14y ago
Even offering free work scares the heck out of good clients. Conversely, people who will agree to the arrangement may treat your time as if it is totally valueless, which will frequently compromise your ability to succeed at the engagement. The free engagement doesn't enhance your credibility if it ends up sucking due to lack of "client" cooperation, so that doesn't help you any. One tactic that generally worked well for me when I was at an early point in my consulting career was roughly: "Normally I'd charge you $x for this. I am confident that you will receive $y-$z of value from this work. Let's do the work. You decide how much I should invoice for at the end of it." I was obviously sucking up more risk with this approach - and had to be willing to walk away with zero (and did on two occasions - one of which was justifiable). But since I had picked sane clients it mostly worked out very well (in one case they happily wrote a check for $x * 5 since we'd all radically underestimated the value of the work ;-) I don't do this now - but it helped get over some "Can you actually do this?" hassles at the point when I didn't have a reputation.

laaph 14y ago

I want to double on kirinan's question. I'm not quite in his shoes; I've had a few clients, I've got a couple theoretically lined up but the answers I keep hearing are "we really want to hire you but we have to get the funding approved", which in the cases I fully pursue mainly seem to be some guy holding the purse strings and not caring if the project gets done or not. This just happens to be my current hurdle. I really wish there was a lot more written from the perspective of "I am trying to make it" than the perspective of "so now you are rich and famous and are looking for how to make a few more dollars...."

jdlshore 14y ago
I'm not patio11, but I have been a consultant for about 12 years. "We want to hire you but we have to get the funding approved" means you aren't talking to the right people. It's likely you're talking to technical buyers (who have the power to say, "no, don't hire this guy") and not the economic buyer (who has the power to say, "yes, you're hired, send the paperwork to this person in A/P.") The very first thing I do in any opportunity is make sure I'm talking to the economic buyer. I'm polite about it, but I don't want to talk to technical buyers. Period. There's no point in talking to someone who can only say no. This takes practice, and chutzpah, and I found it very difficult, and sometimes still do. But I have almost never sold a gig when I wasn't talking to the economic buyer, so I get over it. Questions to determine if you're talking to the economic buyer: "Who has signing authority on this?" "Once I send a proposal, who will approve it?" "Whose budget is this under?" Then you have to speak to the economic buyer. Be polite, but firm. Remember, time spent talking to a technical buyer is essentially wasted time. "Okay, let's schedule an appointment with X so we can discuss your needs further." "After you're done with the background info you wanted to discuss, let's schedule a time to speak with X about her expectations." "When will X be available to talk about this project?" It's a bit trickier than this, but those insights come with practice. For me, focusing on speaking to economic buyers was the single most valuable sales technique I learned, literally turning my consulting business from a failure to a success. Good luck!
- lincolnq 14y ago
  Wow. This is shockingly good and easily actionable advice.