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> No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip serv

> No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only about return of investment. Umm, not all businesses are in the business of providing happiness to people. Some are in fact in the business of providing misery to people. Anyways, businesses are not the ones deciding what services to provide to the people, customers are. So if you want to blame anybody, blame customers (or as Tool put it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWMmZEoT84 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWMmZEoT84). > And yet, _billions_ of people continue to do that, and _billions_ of people die from deceases that technology has eradicated for us half a century or more ago, and development goes on to other stuff, like --to name but a few-- faster smartphones, game consoles, pet food and bling jewellery. While I can easily sympathize with your position, rich western corporations don't owe jack shit to third world people. I agree that it would be nice of us to help them out. However if we are not interested in helping them out for whatever reason, they still have the option of helping themselves out - the way we helped out ourselves. I sincerely believe that we are not doing it because we want them bad, but we are too preoccupied with solving our own problems to help those guys out. Yes looking at the difference between them and us, does show our preoccupation with self interest. But the reason we solved so many of our issues in precisely our preoccupation with self interest. > (I don't mean "development" as in the "scientific development" either. I mean it as business development, the idea that production, sales, whatever must continuously expand. I'd be OK with scientific development put directly in the help of humanity, like, say, AIDS drugs sold at cost in Africa instead of pricing them for profit). I believe that you and other people with the same attitude as you should put your money where your mouth is and lead the way for the rest of us.

azm1 14y ago
Are you really sure we as western hemisphere do not own nothing to the eastern or more accurately to people who struggle? I'm no historian but I heard something about the wiping out Indians and enslaving African people. Are you really sure you can say that we are independent snowflakes who deserve all things by right and to not actually look where to pay back for our mistakes to improve all Earth life conditions no matter of location and nationhood ? The thing is we have not solved many problems yet, we just postpone them and trying to argue with improvements on technological layer which is relatively shallow on its own. Western culture is for example filled with materialism and definitely not pushing us forward. By reducing the needs and learn about struggle of others beyond our family would help to reduce waste and improve life of others. Both sides win.
- JanezStupar 14y ago
  Killed people cannot be brought back. Greed is always bad. However you are putting strawmen about. Let me explain. The Indian situation was at least as unfortunate as Jewish situation in ancient Babilon or Gypsy (Roma) situation in ancient Babilon. Or the situation of Amalekites and Midianites. Or the situation of Moors for that matter. It is unfortunate that sometimes two civilizations clash and cannot get to grips about what to do with some piece of land and then the more powerful group goes to tear the weaker group a new one. It is extremely unfortunate however, this issue will not be solved here on HN and it will not be solved by idealism. It is an story of pragmatism in the face of adversity. Kill or be killed, adopt or be left behind. Regarding slavery, this is another great myth. Americans (and Dutch) enslaved barely anybody. The poor gentle africans were more than capable of doing their own savagery by themselves. Africans did their own enslaving and western slave traders merely bought the available goods. Does that make slave trade moral? No. However I really dislike this picture of white man as the most amoral being on the face of the world.
  - djtriptych 14y ago
    It's really pathetic that you interpret the modern (and ongoing) economic oppression of the 3rd world to a personal attack on White men. Grow up.
    - JanezStupar 14y ago
      Where and how did I do that? All I am saying is that us Humans are a vicious bunch. I have no illusions that Indians would have slaughtered Europeans if they had the means to do so. If Dutch didn't buy slaves, they would die working for someone else. Was Japanese military and economic oppression merely an attempt to dethrone The White Man(tm) as chairman of hell? What if Mongols had managed to get their act together? And in no way I believe that White Man is Pure and Innocent. But I will also not concede that its all the white mans fault.
      - Klinky 14y ago
        The fact that you can imagine hypothetical situations where the oppressed was the oppressor, or was oppressed by others, doesn't excuse the actions taken by their actual oppressor. "...us Humans are a vicious bunch" is merely a statement, not a valid excuse.
jacquesm 14y ago
> While I can easily sympathize with your position, rich western corporations don't owe jack shit to third world people. Wow that is so wrong it is terrible. Rich western corporations are rich western corporations because of the 1400s to date absolute rape of the rest of the world by the west. We, collectively including our corporations owe third world people in a way that we will likely never be able to make good on. > I believe that you and other people with the same attitude as you should put your money where your mouth is and lead the way for the rest of us. And I believe that people with your attitude should go and read a few history books. You can start with 'Guns, Germs and Steel', proceed to the VOC company history (the UK version and the Dutch one) as well as the history of India. Maybe that will change your mind on this. In case you don't feel like reading I'll give you a short preview of one possible conclusion: The 'West' is where it is today because it is standing on the broken backs and bloody remains of millions of people slaughtered, robbed and raped for profit.
- JanezStupar 14y ago
  I didn't say western people don't own our brethren anything. I said that coporations are not the problem. And that our coporations don't own anybody anything, beyond respecting the law and paying taxes that is. Also one would expect (and that is what I am hinting at) that the rest of the world will smart up and stop acting as if we know what is the best for them. They are independent people and are not our children. Regarding history, maybe we should demand something from the Scandinavians, since their current welfare is obviously hugely dependent on the Viking's rape and pillage? p.s.: And I would advise you to read on Eastern hisotry and learn how Eastern people were more than capable of producing mass genocides on their own. Also I am not denying anything you are saying. However do you somehow believe that if West said today: "We did you wrong, here take everything that is ours and let us pay our debt in blood". It would make the world a better place? The crux of my argument is that it is upon third world to improve their situation, with or without our help. The biggest help we already gave them is the massive investments into side tracks. If they want to produce medicine they can just rip off our tech. No need to start from square one. etc.
  - jacquesm 14y ago
edj 14y ago
Anyways, businesses are not the ones deciding what services to provide to the people, customers are. So if you want to blame anybody, blame customers Huh? Since when are businesses like billiard balls, just sitting there, inert, awaiting some external stimuli to push them into action. A business is an association of individual people. If people have agency, then businesses must have agency, as well. And in any case, as the saying goes, it takes two to tango.

azm1 14y ago

Are you really sure we as western hemisphere do not own nothing to the eastern or more accurately to people who struggle? I'm no historian but I heard something about the wiping out Indians and enslaving African people. Are you really sure you can say that we are independent snowflakes who deserve all things by right and to not actually look where to pay back for our mistakes to improve all Earth life conditions no matter of location and nationhood ? The thing is we have not solved many problems yet, we just postpone them and trying to argue with improvements on technological layer which is relatively shallow on its own. Western culture is for example filled with materialism and definitely not pushing us forward. By reducing the needs and learn about struggle of others beyond our family would help to reduce waste and improve life of others. Both sides win.

JanezStupar 14y ago
Killed people cannot be brought back. Greed is always bad. However you are putting strawmen about. Let me explain. The Indian situation was at least as unfortunate as Jewish situation in ancient Babilon or Gypsy (Roma) situation in ancient Babilon. Or the situation of Amalekites and Midianites. Or the situation of Moors for that matter. It is unfortunate that sometimes two civilizations clash and cannot get to grips about what to do with some piece of land and then the more powerful group goes to tear the weaker group a new one. It is extremely unfortunate however, this issue will not be solved here on HN and it will not be solved by idealism. It is an story of pragmatism in the face of adversity. Kill or be killed, adopt or be left behind. Regarding slavery, this is another great myth. Americans (and Dutch) enslaved barely anybody. The poor gentle africans were more than capable of doing their own savagery by themselves. Africans did their own enslaving and western slave traders merely bought the available goods. Does that make slave trade moral? No. However I really dislike this picture of white man as the most amoral being on the face of the world.
- djtriptych 14y ago
  It's really pathetic that you interpret the modern (and ongoing) economic oppression of the 3rd world to a personal attack on White men. Grow up.
  - JanezStupar 14y ago
    Where and how did I do that? All I am saying is that us Humans are a vicious bunch. I have no illusions that Indians would have slaughtered Europeans if they had the means to do so. If Dutch didn't buy slaves, they would die working for someone else. Was Japanese military and economic oppression merely an attempt to dethrone The White Man(tm) as chairman of hell? What if Mongols had managed to get their act together? And in no way I believe that White Man is Pure and Innocent. But I will also not concede that its all the white mans fault.
    - Klinky 14y ago
      The fact that you can imagine hypothetical situations where the oppressed was the oppressor, or was oppressed by others, doesn't excuse the actions taken by their actual oppressor. "...us Humans are a vicious bunch" is merely a statement, not a valid excuse.

jacquesm 14y ago

> While I can easily sympathize with your position, rich western corporations don't owe jack shit to third world people. Wow that is so wrong it is terrible. Rich western corporations are rich western corporations because of the 1400s to date absolute rape of the rest of the world by the west. We, collectively including our corporations owe third world people in a way that we will likely never be able to make good on. > I believe that you and other people with the same attitude as you should put your money where your mouth is and lead the way for the rest of us. And I believe that people with your attitude should go and read a few history books. You can start with 'Guns, Germs and Steel', proceed to the VOC company history (the UK version and the Dutch one) as well as the history of India. Maybe that will change your mind on this. In case you don't feel like reading I'll give you a short preview of one possible conclusion: The 'West' is where it is today because it is standing on the broken backs and bloody remains of millions of people slaughtered, robbed and raped for profit.

JanezStupar 14y ago
I didn't say western people don't own our brethren anything. I said that coporations are not the problem. And that our coporations don't own anybody anything, beyond respecting the law and paying taxes that is. Also one would expect (and that is what I am hinting at) that the rest of the world will smart up and stop acting as if we know what is the best for them. They are independent people and are not our children. Regarding history, maybe we should demand something from the Scandinavians, since their current welfare is obviously hugely dependent on the Viking's rape and pillage? p.s.: And I would advise you to read on Eastern hisotry and learn how Eastern people were more than capable of producing mass genocides on their own. Also I am not denying anything you are saying. However do you somehow believe that if West said today: "We did you wrong, here take everything that is ours and let us pay our debt in blood". It would make the world a better place? The crux of my argument is that it is upon third world to improve their situation, with or without our help. The biggest help we already gave them is the massive investments into side tracks. If they want to produce medicine they can just rip off our tech. No need to start from square one. etc.
- jacquesm 14y ago

edj 14y ago

Anyways, businesses are not the ones deciding what services to provide to the people, customers are. So if you want to blame anybody, blame customers Huh? Since when are businesses like billiard balls, just sitting there, inert, awaiting some external stimuli to push them into action. A business is an association of individual people. If people have agency, then businesses must have agency, as well. And in any case, as the saying goes, it takes two to tango.