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I should never comment after a fine and bibulous meal, but... I'm not sure how appealing I find the idea of a society where people thought in that way. Perhaps

I should never comment after a fine and bibulous meal, but... I'm not sure how appealing I find the idea of a society where people thought in that way. Perhaps Bacchus is distracting me from the nuance of that point however.

orangethirty 14y ago
You are misisng the point by analyzing it from a negative perspective. Read it again but as a positive. "I am willing to do whatever it takes to get what I want." Doing whatever it takes means getting a minimum wage job to be able to pay for college. Finish college and work your way into a good starting job. Then working your way up to a good position. Doing whatever it takes to get what you want is the right attitude to have. Do you want to lose weight? Then run 3 miles 3 times a week. That is a whatever it takes approach. Need to make more money? Get a second job, a side gig selling whatever, or donate blood. Whatever it takes. Though whatever it takes does not imply illegal or immoral approaches. It just implies that you will not put bullshit excuses to get to where you want to be. :)
- icelancer 14y ago
  Perhaps my favorite line from a physical training author is: "I said it was simple. Not easy." Applies to many things in life.
  - dsirijus 14y ago
    Most, even. Nice quote.
    - icelancer 14y ago
      Dan John, for those wondering. An excellent author.
- anthonyb 14y ago
  > Though whatever it takes does not imply illegal or immoral approaches. Yes it does, and that's often what's lost when people start applying mantras like that.
  - vog 14y ago
    Indeed. So the advice should rather be: "I won't put bullshit excuses to get to where I want."
    - anthonyb 14y ago
      And what's a "bullshit excuse"? I don't think you'll find an easy criteria for that, either. Is "someone else's happiness" a bullshit excuse?
      - tarabukka 14y ago
        This is my problem with self-help books... you must try to replace years of your own learning, rationalizing and understanding with someone else's ideas, absorbed only through a few hours of reading. Naturally, it falls apart quickly.
        jakubp 14y ago
        Interesting. Why do you think it falls apart? Is there something a book author can do to make it "stick"? Is there something the book _reader_ might do (e.g. before / during reading the book) to be more receptive? What other medium would work better in your opinion for the kind of life change that self help usually tries to create?
        tarabukka 14y ago
        I think it's more on the part of the reader. A lot of willpower is needed to fundamentally change yourself, especially based on just one person's ideas. It's up to the reader to put the ideas into action, and I think that for a lot of people that's difficult without a motivating environment. For example, hanging out with people that are into fitness does a lot more for you than going it alone. Working a service job and having to speak to people to make money does more for your confidence than any motivating words. It's different for different people, of course.
- aufreak3 14y ago
  Spot on. And to those arguing that it necessarily implies violation of morals, if happiness and a clear conscience are also what I want, where does the trouble lie? Consider your utility function in its entirety and not just a local optimization like "I want to succeed with my business".

orangethirty 14y ago

You are misisng the point by analyzing it from a negative perspective. Read it again but as a positive. "I am willing to do whatever it takes to get what I want." Doing whatever it takes means getting a minimum wage job to be able to pay for college. Finish college and work your way into a good starting job. Then working your way up to a good position. Doing whatever it takes to get what you want is the right attitude to have. Do you want to lose weight? Then run 3 miles 3 times a week. That is a whatever it takes approach. Need to make more money? Get a second job, a side gig selling whatever, or donate blood. Whatever it takes. Though whatever it takes does not imply illegal or immoral approaches. It just implies that you will not put bullshit excuses to get to where you want to be. :)

icelancer 14y ago
Perhaps my favorite line from a physical training author is: "I said it was simple. Not easy." Applies to many things in life.
- dsirijus 14y ago
  Most, even. Nice quote.
  - icelancer 14y ago
    Dan John, for those wondering. An excellent author.
anthonyb 14y ago
> Though whatever it takes does not imply illegal or immoral approaches. Yes it does, and that's often what's lost when people start applying mantras like that.
- vog 14y ago
  Indeed. So the advice should rather be: "I won't put bullshit excuses to get to where I want."
  - anthonyb 14y ago
    And what's a "bullshit excuse"? I don't think you'll find an easy criteria for that, either. Is "someone else's happiness" a bullshit excuse?
    - tarabukka 14y ago
      This is my problem with self-help books... you must try to replace years of your own learning, rationalizing and understanding with someone else's ideas, absorbed only through a few hours of reading. Naturally, it falls apart quickly.
      - jakubp 14y ago
        Interesting. Why do you think it falls apart? Is there something a book author can do to make it "stick"? Is there something the book _reader_ might do (e.g. before / during reading the book) to be more receptive? What other medium would work better in your opinion for the kind of life change that self help usually tries to create?
        tarabukka 14y ago
        I think it's more on the part of the reader. A lot of willpower is needed to fundamentally change yourself, especially based on just one person's ideas. It's up to the reader to put the ideas into action, and I think that for a lot of people that's difficult without a motivating environment. For example, hanging out with people that are into fitness does a lot more for you than going it alone. Working a service job and having to speak to people to make money does more for your confidence than any motivating words. It's different for different people, of course.
aufreak3 14y ago
Spot on. And to those arguing that it necessarily implies violation of morals, if happiness and a clear conscience are also what I want, where does the trouble lie? Consider your utility function in its entirety and not just a local optimization like "I want to succeed with my business".