9 ms·
Show HN: The home automation system with an API
- pdufour 14y agoIs this related to Lockitron?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- schappim 14y agoNope (but we hope to integrate with them in the future). I should also give them a shout out for making http://selfstarter.us/ http://selfstarter.us/ available. We used components from it and shoved them onto Sinatra instead of Rails. Cheers, Marcus
- pdufour 14y agoAh, that explains it. I was definitely noticing some similarities. Thanks for clearing that up.
- 8ig8 14y agoStill soaking it all in, but one inconsistency jumped out at me: "Shipping Mid January 2013" "First batch ships December 2012"
- schappim 14y agoHi Big8 (Marcus from Ninja Blocks here). Thanks for the heads up, I've put in the fix. Cheers, Marcus
- muellerwolfram 14y agoninja fix... but probably to quick, now it says january 2012
- notum 14y agoThe hardware package alone makes this look like a really good deal. Why isn't the "remaining" number going down?
- schappim 14y agoQ. >> why isn't the "remaining" number going down A. Slow web hooks. The page is written in Sinatra. The sinatra app stores an inventory value in MongoDB. When there is a new order, our commerce engine Shopify (is meant to) send a web hook POST to the sinatra app to get it to pull the current inventory via Shopify's API. This hasn't been happening! Cheers, Marcus
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- mikegioia 14y agoI've never wanted $200 more than I do right now :(
- pstuart 14y agoVery impressive. One thing that would be nice would be a low cost light switch replacement.
- schappim 14y agoMate this keeps on popping up internally, what exactly did you have in mind? Cheers, Marcus (Ninja Blocks)
- pstuart 14y agoA light switch that fits in a normal plate that can be remotely "switched". One can pick up a SPST switch for a buck at the local home improvement center -- $10 for this feature would make it easier to buy without hesitation.
- hayksaakian 14y agoI remember seeing you guys at TC Disrupt. Looking good!
- schappim 14y agoThanks mate! We're slowly getting there :)
- cubicle67 14y agoPayPal are bastards. I cancelled my account with them a few years ago and they've since refused to process any payment using my cc. This has caused me much frustration over time and I'm not alone Not sure if people who use PayPay for credit card processing are aware of this. I'd love to buy this - and I attempted to - but can't.
- schappim 14y agoUnfortunately they're our only option in Australia ( at least until these guys come out of beta https://pin.net.au/ https://pin.net.au/ ).
- cubicle67 14y agoYes, we're a bit short on choice here, aren't we? I'm using eWay http://www.eway.com.au/ http://www.eway.com.au/ who have been fantastic to work with but require you have a merchant bank account. Seen pin.net.au before and it looks good
- damncabbage 14y agoI'm looking at using https://www.braintreepayments.com/tour/international https://www.braintreepayments.com/tour/international for online ticket sales a little later this year. (I'd love to use Pin, but I'm still waiting for a way to use them without the massive bugbear of anything beyond PCI SAQ A, which comes into play as soon as you're POSTing CC numbers to your server.) PS: Hi Marcus. ProgSoc Rob here. :D
- jzwinck 14y agoCould you accept Bitcoins?
- windexh8er 14y agoSo... A problem here - there's a lot of startup in the home automation space right now. I've been using MiCasaVerde for over a year now and it's awesome. Fully controllable and configurable via the MiOS GUI, or hack it to your heart's content via Lua scripts. The awesome thing is there's plenty of devices you can buy OTS right now whether Z-Wave (built-in) or Insteon (add-on USB adapter). What confuses me about what NinjaBlocks is trying to do is - they don't cater to anyone who already HAS home automation... Meaning: I'd buy it for $200, but they don't say what I can integrate with. I'm not going to spend another grand on switches, dimmers, motion detectors, locks, etc. if I don't know I can reuse my investment. That's a big part of why Spark is not a good option IMHO (http://www.sparkdevices.com/ http://www.sparkdevices.com/) - because they're using 802.11 WiFi (I don't want my home automation components on Wifi for a variety of reasons, but the first two are: 1) WiFi doesn't have a low-power advantage like ZigBee, Z-Wave, Insteon, etc. and 2) WiFi doesn't automagically create a mesh network for auto-routing and network extension). Then you have a startup like SmartThings (http://smartthings.com/ http://smartthings.com/) that's just reinventing the wheel, creating a pretty iOS interface, and then trying to charge an outrageous amount for a monthly service - something MiCasaVerde doesn't do. So, at the end of the day would I use SmartThings? I'd like to - but I won't because I don't want to pay $120 a year for something I can run better in my own infrastructure. I don't want you selling my energy usage data or knowing if I'm home, with something like MiCasaVerde - I can choose not to use their cloud proxy to control my home. If anyone is listening who's designing home automation and wants to cater to people who are looking at building a service to deploy these types of automation to the masses you need to do it right. Baby Boomers, at least the majority of them, will think all of the above are too complicated, so they're going to want someone to install and maintain this for them. There's a huge middleground that needs to be solved here and unless SmartThings and others are going to provide a service, that $10/month is not going to be justified. Back to NinjaBlocks, please answer the following: 1) Monthly fee if I use your cloud proxy to hit the controller? If so - how much? 2) If #1 is true - is the API directly accessible on the controller - or are you locking me in? 3) Low power integration (i.e. ZigBee, Z-Wave, Insteon, etc.)? Answered my own Q: No... From (http://help.ninjablocks.com/customer/portal/articles/692139-what-rf-devices-can-my-ninja-block-talk-to- http://help.ninjablocks.com/customer/portal/articles/692139-...): "The original Ninja Block comes with a RF 433.92 Mhz (433) dongle and future Ninja Blocks will have this baked in. 433 is awesome because you will find it in all sorts of low-cost battery powered devices, its range is pretty good too. That said, its not all sunshine and lollipops - there are good reasons its considered "low-tech" - only one device can "talk" at a time, labelling is appalling, all protocols are proprietary. So not everything will work out of the box, but a lot of stuff will. " <<<<<----- Sorry, but this sucks, I'm out. You need to have a real and baked solution besides this 433Mhz junk that's not mesh, and has zero security baked in. There's no way I'll pay $200 for this with zero long term scalability or security in mind. Again, another pretty solution that's just a toy. For my money I'd go with SmartThings - but for the long term I'm sticking with my MiCasaVerde (http://micasaverde.com http://micasaverde.com) setup - cost feasible and fully in my control and no monthly costs. Until someone can come to the table with that I'm better off building my own interface.
- level09 14y agohow does the central computer connect to the internet ? can it use a 3G sim card for example ?
- jdotjdot 14y agoI'm not really clear on how much hardware experience you need to extend this. For example, let's say I wanted to hook this up to my thermostat as you suggested, or to my espresso machine as you did. What would that actually require? Would I need those breakout boards? I can't even find any; how would I get one?
- schappim 14y agoThis kit includes a wireless temperature and humidity sensor. If you want to hack your expresso machine you can use the breakout kit to do this (of course you'll need basic electronics skills to do this). Cheers, Marcus (Ninja Blocks)
- Aqua_Geek 14y agoThis looks really interesting. Some random thoughts: Your homepage says the Ninja Block contains an Arduino-compatible µC and a BeagleBone. It took me a while to understand that the former is for communicating with sensors and the latter is for communicating with your API. I didn't realize they worked together at first - I thought it was some sort of "we used Arduino initially but then had to upgrade to something else in later versions" thing. Interesting use of USB connectors to pass power and IO to accessory boards.
- schappim 14y agoHi Aqua_Geek, Thanks for the feedback, we should make that more clear. Actually both the Arduino-compatible µC and a BeagleBone will be used to talk to sensors. Having a tiny linux computer on board buys us a heap of flexibility! Cheers, Marcus
- jwatte 14y ago1) I don't want wireless at all. Too easily hacked without detection. Wired Ethernet is pretty cheap these days, and power line signaling is also available. 2) Like Twine, another HA startup, and all of the incumbents, it's too expensive.
- sprobertson 14y agoAnd with SiriProxy [https://github.com/plamoni/SiriProxy https://github.com/plamoni/SiriProxy] you could control it all by voice! The future is near!
- tsumnia 14y agoLike windexh8r, I'm starting to see the rise of home automation systems as well. This is actually an area I'm currently looking into working on some projects in. With that, what are some some features users would like to see?
- Frozenlock 14y agoAny plan to use industry standard protocols? I work in HVAC controls and I'm always surprised by how the 'home automation' folks seem to just ignore what's already out there. My favorite standard is BACnet (standard for ASHRAE, ANSI and ISO), but there's also Modbus, Lontalk... There's a bunch of people who have already worked very hard to make sure there's some usable protocols for lighting, air conditioning and even security access. IMO you could leverage a strong position and use existing codes by using them.
- askpete 14y agoTotally agree in principal @frozenlock. 433 was simply the path of least resistance for us. It gave us very cost effective off the shelf sensors, and critically, remote control power sockets in all regions. Its not super elegant, however, it gives software developers (most of our customers atm) hardware with an API for peanuts compared to the established options. The Ninja is a meta-platform that offers a normalized API for disparate hardware. See my reply above for the long winded answer. The short version is - we aim to provide OAuth for your all stuff ;)
- tsumnia 14y agoWhat are you using for automation? At my old company, we were using Zigbee thermostats after giving up on BACnet/Modbus (just didn't have that time/ability)
- Frozenlock 14y agoI wouldn't call it automation per se. HVAC control is simply named... well, control. The last control company I worked for was heavily invested in the Delta controls' products. (All working on top of the BACnet protocol) Last I heard Delta also started to toy with Zigbee. In my head there aren't mutually exclusive, as the BACnet architecture enables it to be built on top of other protocols. (BACnet/arcnet, BACnet/MSTP, BACnet/Ethernet, BACnet/IP...)
- elbear 14y agoHi, Frozenlock. I'm interested in the topic of home automation, but I know very little. Can you recommend any extra reading besides the standards that you mentioned?
- nepsilon 14y agoAt the bottom it still reads "First batch ships January 2012". I guess there too you mean 2013. On the other hand, your copyright year is already in 2013.
- mcartyem 14y agoThe best solution to home automation is to have such a small home that there's no need to automate. That's a special case of a more general solution. The best way to solve a problem is to not have to solve it.
- jzwinck 14y agoThis is insightful. I wonder if someone from Ninja or another HA user can comment on what value these systems can offer to someone in a one-bedroom apartment. Living small also reduces the need for fancy power usage monitoring, WiFi repeaters, etc.
- nitrogen 14y agoI'm not affiliated with Ninja Blocks, but here's what I did in my previous zero-bedroom apartment with a Kinect: http://nitrogen.posterous.com/home-automation-and-lighting-control-with-kin http://nitrogen.posterous.com/home-automation-and-lighting-c...
- huhtenberg 14y agoYou realize that these are dead-locked, right? https://s3.amazonaws.com/ninja-assets/gears.svg https://s3.amazonaws.com/ninja-assets/gears.svg :)
- Shaun_Springer 14y agoAs a former employee if Crestron, and a big advocate of change and disruption in this industry, I am xcoted to see this product coming to life. I'd love to talk to you guys about what your doing and how maybe I can integrate some high end gear with it.
- askpete 14y agoplease ping us help@ninjablocks.com
- hingisundhorsa 14y agoI've used Wiser Home Control, http://www.wiserhomeautomation.com/ http://www.wiserhomeautomation.com/ . There isn't an API per say but I figured out that they're using XML for all their commands/events for lighting, heating, air-conditioning, security, etc.
- lunetics 14y agoFor some advanced use take a look at http://www.ip-symcon.de/ http://www.ip-symcon.de/ It uses KNX / EIB Bus industrial standards for Home automation, as well as enocean and other 3rd party automation tools. And it's fully customizable / programmable with php.
- davidw 14y agoHere's a home automation-ish problem I've got right now: We live in an on older (70ies) apartment building, with a wonky central heater, and people with varying levels of tolerance for heat and cold. Some of us suspect the heater is kind of broken, because it's hot when it's warmer out, and sometimes seems to pump out less heat when it's cold. So... it'd be interesting to collect data: interior temperature for all 6 apartments, and exterior temperature in the shade. And do so cheaply. Ideas?
- askpete 14y agoA Ninja Block might be a good match. pros - You can retrieve folded historical data for sensors from the api (min/max/avg/interval etc) - You can set a callback that POSTs every reading (every 45s) - cheap, additional temp/humidity sensors are $15 cons - range could be a real problem. Manufacturer states 100m open air 30 inside, which is inline with our experience (with a fully extended antena). Apartment walls could be a showstopper.
- linker3000 14y agoHow about a raspberry pi with a bunch of DS18B20 1-wire temp sensors - stupidly cheap if you can handle the wiring. I'm sketching out the design for a raspberry pi-based central heating controller with a web interface, mix of sensors and an lcd display - should cost around 75-85UK pounds, including the pi
- drsim 14y agoI backed the 'wireless sensor readings to internet' device Twine (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/supermechanical/twine-listen-to-your-world-talk-to-the-internet http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/supermechanical/twine-li...) so I'm going to put down a couple things about my experience. -- Production delays -- I waited almost a year longer than expected to get my unit. Because I just wanted to tinker I wasn't bothered. Ninja Blocks say their units are manufactured, just waiting for the enclosures. This might not be a problem for them. -- Battery eaters -- Twine eats batteries like nobodies business. Two AA batteries last about two weeks. On the forums this seems like the typical experience. Ninja Blocks looks as if the central 'Ninja Block' can be mains powered. But will the wireless sensors have a short battery life? -- Web app -- Twine has a website that the device must communicate with to report data and push rules to it. There's no (out-of-the-box) way to get it to talk to a local server via a clean API. This was a big disappointment for me mainly because their web app is very limited: - No data logging (just reports the latest figure) - Rules can just be triggered over thresholds (ie when temperature reaches 20c then X) not when temperature changes - For moisture the actual resistance isn't reported, just a wet or dry condition. This renders it useless for plant watering. Twine can make a HTTP request when a rule is tripped. I plan to play with this but it's not that useful if it can't just HTTP request every time a value changes as I wanted to log temperature (plus it's a GET!). The Ninja Blocks apps look better and appear to fill the gap between reading something then doing something. Twine can really only report something (twitter/sms/email/HTTP supported). But I'd caution that until you get your hands a device like this you don't know of its true limitations. -- Sensors -- I didn't up my kickstarter amount when they announced new sensors. I wish I had, as only the temperature sensor is nearly useful. The other built in sensor is orientation... ? IMHO they should've thrown in the other sensors and maybe upped the price to increase satisfaction. I prefer the sensor pack that ships by default with Ninja Blocks. In spite of the above I'm optimistic about Twine as it really is early days. This space has massive potential if it can break out of communities like ours into the mainstream. I just hope Supermechanical doesn't get distracted and focusses squarely on their flagship product. Ninja Blocks? I won't be ordering but will keep a close eye on what those who receive the first units think. Their approach so far seems to be a better path to market than Twine's crowdfunding and their presentation superior.
- 14y ago
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- DanBlake 14y agoJust bought one- Will be replacing my Lowes Iris system if it works decent enough. Will this work with the existing lowes iris sensors? edit- It does not support the sensors :( Also, will it work with standard security/video cameras (RTSP/RTMP)? edit- no, it does not look like that works now either :/
- askpete 14y agoAFAICT Iris is a zigbee/zwave hub? We have experimented with a zigbee via a usb dongle - not production ready but its doable. We'd love to support Z-wave, but its a longer term feature with licensing issues and bandwidth pushing it down the backlog somewhat. Does Iris have an API that could be wrapped? IP cams (especially the ultra cheap ones with pan and tilt) are way up on our list. It will be one of the first client modules off the shelf in the new year.
- windexh8er 14y agoIf you want something that works with what you have today your best bet is MiCasaVerde (I've mentioned them a lot in posts - have no tie to them, but am a mostly-satisifed customer at this point): http://micasaverde.com/vera-lite.php http://micasaverde.com/vera-lite.php The Vera Lite is probably what you want... It can handle your existing sensors and do video (although the video isn't anything spectacular - I use a different system for that, but it does work). The Vera has "app" concept - so from the controller you can install MiCasaVerde or community provided applications to do certain things (i.e something like a countdown timer for a scene, or an app to control an OTS yard watering system for example). But the best part is you can write your own apps (LUA). The system is entirely hackable (SSH access). So it's basically an open slate to most extent. But, the key thing is there's no monthly fee if you want to use their cloud service - you just need an account and controller (I'm guessing they collect stats on you events - but that's just a guess on my part). The UI leaves something to be desired - and again, that's where startups like SmartThings will capitalize (pretty).
- huhtenberg 14y agoYou are over-thinking it. I am as convinced as ever that almost all home automation needs, realistically, are covered by a WiFi-enabled drop-in replacements for conventional wall switches, junction boxes and sockets. Everything else is nice, but you must get the basics right before moving on to the fluff. And nobody still has got it. I want to be able to switch off a floor lamp 5 feet away and turn up the heat in the bedroom without lifting my precious behind from the couch. Whether there's a motion in a garage is really secondary. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3957590 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3957590
- askpete 14y agoWell said @huhtenberg we certainly hope to serve your lazy ass ;) We do remote control sockets today. Not elegant but at $10-15 a piece best priced laziness available. We are cooking up something for IR controlled heating/cooling.
- huhtenberg 14y agoDo show them sockets. A photo/render and a spec if you have them. The IR controlled heating/cooling ... IR? How is that supposed to work?
- askpete 14y agoWe will be shipping these http://www.shop.wattsclever.com/european-socket-type/47-ea.html http://www.shop.wattsclever.com/european-socket-type/47-ea.h... in a couple of weeks. They don't have UL/ETL unfortunately so we won't be selling them in the US. You can get these from amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005OH2EUS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005OH2EUS/ref=oh_details_o... which work alright. In Australia, central heating/cooling is rare and high-end - in most places cooling matters much more than heating. The most common climate control method by far are split system airconditioners. We are working on a retrofit device specifically for these, though it will work on any IR controlled appliance.
- windexh8er 14y ago
- sauteedbiscuits 14y agoThe "Only x remaining" part is sleazeball bullshit. It was 5 a few hours ago, then 12, now 19. Pretty sure it is supposed to go the other way.