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FYI a quick fix for claudish is to ask for the response to be in ASD-STE100 (Simple Technical English). Then it is far more readable. But I would agree that t

FYI a quick fix for claudish is to ask for the response to be in ASD-STE100 (Simple Technical English). Then it is far more readable. But I would agree that this is an annoyance and shouldn't require user workaround to get something readable.

_boffin_ 5d ago
Does not work for Claude, at least for me and I put it as the system prompt
- LPisGood 5d ago
  I don’t think system prompts are particularly reliable way to do much at all. It’s better to put it as a hook after each response, or a skill at least so you can trigger it at will if you don’t want it everytime.
  - kekebo 5d ago
    Do you think they're unreliable based on the position in the conversation or other factors?
    - MisterMunchkin 5d ago
      Anthropic has probably RL’d the system prompt into nothing because of their fear of the user being able to control the model. If it listened to you about the slop language, it might listen to you if you asked it to help you with no-no tasks.
- ffsm8 5d ago
  It does work, you however have to put it into every single prompt in which you didn't want a rubbish response Literally every one, even 1-2 prompts later it starts to go back
- bel8 5d ago
  For me it works at first but Claude models forgets it after some prompts, despite only using like 100k tokens.
- tempest_ 5d ago
  Your best bet is to use hooks and inject it after every file edit / response by first running the content through haiku and asking if it is asd 100 ste. It burns more tokens but is the only way to get tolerable text.
snapplebobapple 5d ago
This fixed claude! Thanks!
a2dam 5d ago
I think this is more a meme than anything else, for a couple reasons: First, after a while it's just as grating as Claudeish. Second, my hunch is that it constricts the actual thinking of the LLM, like the same way that Newspeak does in 1984. It shrinks the range of thought that can be expressed if used as an input. I think the real way to do it is to have another Claude entirely deal with the user as a liaison, but to keep the thinking in whatever format it came in. Latent space reasoning, if you think about it, is exactly this to a crazy degree: why even formulate a thought as words if you can just keep it as matmuls until the user needs it? And then, if the user needs it, have it always specifically formulated for the user by another LLM rather than constrict its range of thought? Anyway, that's my take.
- StilesCrisis 5d ago
  A few weeks ago two "Claude wrapper" projects showed up here within 24 hours of each other. Both seemed to just sand the details away--useful if Claude is too wordy, I suppose, but seemed to also lose real substance.
- TuxMark5 5d ago
  This is the same reason why I am a bit skeptical of LLM superintelligence. LLMs in the end have to operate in natural language concepts and the complexity of natural language is bounded by limits of human cognition. I'm sure super advanced AI could use concepts that humans not only have no words for, but might not be able to understand alltogether. As such if my thesis is correct, the only way forward for true superintelligence may be getting rid of natural language COTs.
  - nomel 5d ago
    > LLMs in the end have to operate in natural language concepts and the complexity of natural language is bounded by limits of human cognition. I don't think this is true. They have to express themselves as tokens. The meaning of those tokens doesn't have to be text. See any model that can handle images/video. Also, I don't think math, svg, etc, are "natural" language. And, only the final expression is tokens. The intermediate layers, with the encoded concepts, aren't "natural language". But, to address your concern (which nobody can disagree with, since even humans can't fully express through text/pictures), potentially: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49758615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49758615
el_benhameen 5d ago
I tried this a while back and I felt like the result was the same weird shoehorning of ideas into language, just with a different vocabulary. I’d really like for it to work, though.
SoMomentary 5d ago
I created a custom output style based on this (borrowing some from github.com/AminBlg/SimpleEnglish) and I've found it to be better than the default or concise output styles, but still not as good for me as current GPT or Gemini models when it comes to communicating.

_boffin_ 5d ago

Does not work for Claude, at least for me and I put it as the system prompt

LPisGood 5d ago
I don’t think system prompts are particularly reliable way to do much at all. It’s better to put it as a hook after each response, or a skill at least so you can trigger it at will if you don’t want it everytime.
- kekebo 5d ago
  Do you think they're unreliable based on the position in the conversation or other factors?
  - MisterMunchkin 5d ago
    Anthropic has probably RL’d the system prompt into nothing because of their fear of the user being able to control the model. If it listened to you about the slop language, it might listen to you if you asked it to help you with no-no tasks.
ffsm8 5d ago
It does work, you however have to put it into every single prompt in which you didn't want a rubbish response Literally every one, even 1-2 prompts later it starts to go back
bel8 5d ago
For me it works at first but Claude models forgets it after some prompts, despite only using like 100k tokens.
tempest_ 5d ago
Your best bet is to use hooks and inject it after every file edit / response by first running the content through haiku and asking if it is asd 100 ste. It burns more tokens but is the only way to get tolerable text.

snapplebobapple 5d ago

This fixed claude! Thanks!

a2dam 5d ago

I think this is more a meme than anything else, for a couple reasons: First, after a while it's just as grating as Claudeish. Second, my hunch is that it constricts the actual thinking of the LLM, like the same way that Newspeak does in 1984. It shrinks the range of thought that can be expressed if used as an input. I think the real way to do it is to have another Claude entirely deal with the user as a liaison, but to keep the thinking in whatever format it came in. Latent space reasoning, if you think about it, is exactly this to a crazy degree: why even formulate a thought as words if you can just keep it as matmuls until the user needs it? And then, if the user needs it, have it always specifically formulated for the user by another LLM rather than constrict its range of thought? Anyway, that's my take.

StilesCrisis 5d ago
A few weeks ago two "Claude wrapper" projects showed up here within 24 hours of each other. Both seemed to just sand the details away--useful if Claude is too wordy, I suppose, but seemed to also lose real substance.
TuxMark5 5d ago
This is the same reason why I am a bit skeptical of LLM superintelligence. LLMs in the end have to operate in natural language concepts and the complexity of natural language is bounded by limits of human cognition. I'm sure super advanced AI could use concepts that humans not only have no words for, but might not be able to understand alltogether. As such if my thesis is correct, the only way forward for true superintelligence may be getting rid of natural language COTs.
- nomel 5d ago
  > LLMs in the end have to operate in natural language concepts and the complexity of natural language is bounded by limits of human cognition. I don't think this is true. They have to express themselves as tokens. The meaning of those tokens doesn't have to be text. See any model that can handle images/video. Also, I don't think math, svg, etc, are "natural" language. And, only the final expression is tokens. The intermediate layers, with the encoded concepts, aren't "natural language". But, to address your concern (which nobody can disagree with, since even humans can't fully express through text/pictures), potentially: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49758615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49758615

el_benhameen 5d ago

I tried this a while back and I felt like the result was the same weird shoehorning of ideas into language, just with a different vocabulary. I’d really like for it to work, though.

SoMomentary 5d ago

I created a custom output style based on this (borrowing some from github.com/AminBlg/SimpleEnglish) and I've found it to be better than the default or concise output styles, but still not as good for me as current GPT or Gemini models when it comes to communicating.