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When something is new, its capabilities feel incredible. Over time, those same capabilities become mundane, and you start to notice the flaws. (Now, if TFA is

When something is new, its capabilities feel incredible. Over time, those same capabilities become mundane, and you start to notice the flaws. (Now, if TFA is actually measuring reasoning tokens, that's quite different! It's not entirely obvious to me how he is measuring.)

chrsw 5d ago
I don’t think that’s what’s going on. I notice flaws on day one of model releases. But I also notice improvements if the model is truly more advanced than what I’m used to. Then over time the same questions or tasks return worse results. What is actually stopping these model companies from running a model at full capacity on release then once its name rings out, start serving users quantized garbage?
- Wowfunhappy 5d ago
  > What is actually stopping these model companies from running a model at full capacity on release then once its name rings out, start serving users quantized garbage? ...I mean, if they were actually doing this despite saying that they don't—promising one product and delivering something else—I think that would be fraud, no? And, maybe it's one thing to secretly defraud normies like us (although class action lawsuits do exist), but I don't think major enterprises or the US military would take too kindly to it.
  - pixl97 5d ago
    Are you telling me that companies might defraud people for millions and billions of dollars and pay fines that are 1000% less than their profits?" My goodness, you must live on a hell planet. Sorry there for the smarminess but fraud is just a standard business practice these days and fines are the cost of doing business. And I really am all for someone suing these companies forcing discovery so we can see how the sausage is made and how many eyeballs are in it.
  - mobelkh 5d ago
    is it? it's still the same model, they can claim the quantization down to q4 still retains 98% of the performance therefore it's fine. nothing on the fine print tells you what the weights are, you're just getting Fable 5, whatever that is

chrsw 5d ago

I don’t think that’s what’s going on. I notice flaws on day one of model releases. But I also notice improvements if the model is truly more advanced than what I’m used to. Then over time the same questions or tasks return worse results. What is actually stopping these model companies from running a model at full capacity on release then once its name rings out, start serving users quantized garbage?

Wowfunhappy 5d ago
> What is actually stopping these model companies from running a model at full capacity on release then once its name rings out, start serving users quantized garbage? ...I mean, if they were actually doing this despite saying that they don't—promising one product and delivering something else—I think that would be fraud, no? And, maybe it's one thing to secretly defraud normies like us (although class action lawsuits do exist), but I don't think major enterprises or the US military would take too kindly to it.
- pixl97 5d ago
  Are you telling me that companies might defraud people for millions and billions of dollars and pay fines that are 1000% less than their profits?" My goodness, you must live on a hell planet. Sorry there for the smarminess but fraud is just a standard business practice these days and fines are the cost of doing business. And I really am all for someone suing these companies forcing discovery so we can see how the sausage is made and how many eyeballs are in it.
- mobelkh 5d ago
  is it? it's still the same model, they can claim the quantization down to q4 still retains 98% of the performance therefore it's fine. nothing on the fine print tells you what the weights are, you're just getting Fable 5, whatever that is