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> do not consider yourself a contributor to humankind Good lord. You could apply the same logic to any taxpaying resident of any country whose government is do

> do not consider yourself a contributor to humankind Good lord. You could apply the same logic to any taxpaying resident of any country whose government is doing something bad. There's some truth to it, it's worth bearing in mind, but it's also the very definition of an Isolated Demand for Rigor.

petesergeant 14d ago
> Isolated Demand for Rigor That is a fantastic term for something that seems to come up a lot, and I had not heard before.
- oconnor663 14d ago
  https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demand...
  - wonnage 14d ago
    Lmao all roads lead to the same navel gazing bullshit from Scott Alexander The man is the definition of a useful idiot https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/08/30/military-strikes-are-an-extremely-cheap-way-to-help-foreigners/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/08/30/military-strikes-are-a...
applfanboysbgon 14d ago
> You could apply the same logic to any taxpaying resident of any country whose government is doing something bad. You can't, because those taxes are coerced from you at literal gunpoint if you refuse (or your property seized at gunpoint to the same effect). It's completely different than choosing to do that of your own free will. When I was in the US, I did actively attempt to diminish my tax contribution as much as legally possible out of disgust at what it was used for, but nobody is morally tainted for being forced to contribute a small slice to something evil. Maybe there's a threshold where you should be actively laying down your life to resist, eg. if being forced to commit actual murder, but I don't think you can reasonably expect that of paying taxes at all. --- Edit: rate-limited, attaching a reply to a below comment. > The problem with avoiding taxes because of expenditures you think are bad is that you also reduce the pool available for things you think are good. Indeed, but I also chose to contribute money to other good causes instead. In that way, the same sum could be used for 100% good instead of, say, 80% good 20% bad. Now that I live in a country of my choosing, I am proud to pay taxes because of how they are used. 0% of my tax money goes to killing innocent people overseas, for instance.
- gretch 14d ago
  > but I don't think you can reasonably expect that of paying taxes at all. You should beware that you've rationalized everything you do as good enough, and everything that other people do is morally questionable. Have you set the bar for what is 'reasonable' to be extremely convenient for your own circumstances?
  - applfanboysbgon 14d ago
    Wrong. I specifically stated I hold myself to a higher bar than I held anyone else. I took actions to diminish my contribution, and eventually left. I do not begrudge other Americans who did less than I did.
    - gretch 14d ago
      > Wrong. I specifically stated I hold myself to a higher bar than I held anyone else. I took actions to diminish my contribution, and eventually left. I do not begrudge other Americans who did less than I did. This is not what I was trying to say. First let me state the assumption I made: You think that working at Anthropic/OpenAI is morally bad because that's the parent thread, and you made a comment about how somethings are good enough and other things are too bad to tolerate. So yes, you hold yourself to the bar of I should not work at Anthropic/OpenAI - but the point is that this bar is convenient to hold yourself to. Did you "took actions to diminish my contribution, and eventually left. I do not begrudge other Americans who did less than I did." Or did you simply never work there, maybe never even had an offer to work there.
      - salawat 14d ago
        This isn't the gotcha you think it is, and you're basically accusing the individual of "sour grapes". It isn't clever, it's plainly transparent, and about the easiest way to trivialize someone else's moral convictions. Shame on you. Be better.
        14d ago
customguy 14d ago
> it's also the very definition of an Isolated Demand for Rigor. As if the author excluded other examples? What is your criticism, that the principle can also be applied to other things?

petesergeant 14d ago

> Isolated Demand for Rigor That is a fantastic term for something that seems to come up a lot, and I had not heard before.

oconnor663 14d ago
https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demand...
- wonnage 14d ago
  Lmao all roads lead to the same navel gazing bullshit from Scott Alexander The man is the definition of a useful idiot https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/08/30/military-strikes-are-an-extremely-cheap-way-to-help-foreigners/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/08/30/military-strikes-are-a...

applfanboysbgon 14d ago

> You could apply the same logic to any taxpaying resident of any country whose government is doing something bad. You can't, because those taxes are coerced from you at literal gunpoint if you refuse (or your property seized at gunpoint to the same effect). It's completely different than choosing to do that of your own free will. When I was in the US, I did actively attempt to diminish my tax contribution as much as legally possible out of disgust at what it was used for, but nobody is morally tainted for being forced to contribute a small slice to something evil. Maybe there's a threshold where you should be actively laying down your life to resist, eg. if being forced to commit actual murder, but I don't think you can reasonably expect that of paying taxes at all. --- Edit: rate-limited, attaching a reply to a below comment. > The problem with avoiding taxes because of expenditures you think are bad is that you also reduce the pool available for things you think are good. Indeed, but I also chose to contribute money to other good causes instead. In that way, the same sum could be used for 100% good instead of, say, 80% good 20% bad. Now that I live in a country of my choosing, I am proud to pay taxes because of how they are used. 0% of my tax money goes to killing innocent people overseas, for instance.

gretch 14d ago
> but I don't think you can reasonably expect that of paying taxes at all. You should beware that you've rationalized everything you do as good enough, and everything that other people do is morally questionable. Have you set the bar for what is 'reasonable' to be extremely convenient for your own circumstances?
- applfanboysbgon 14d ago
  Wrong. I specifically stated I hold myself to a higher bar than I held anyone else. I took actions to diminish my contribution, and eventually left. I do not begrudge other Americans who did less than I did.
  - gretch 14d ago
    > Wrong. I specifically stated I hold myself to a higher bar than I held anyone else. I took actions to diminish my contribution, and eventually left. I do not begrudge other Americans who did less than I did. This is not what I was trying to say. First let me state the assumption I made: You think that working at Anthropic/OpenAI is morally bad because that's the parent thread, and you made a comment about how somethings are good enough and other things are too bad to tolerate. So yes, you hold yourself to the bar of I should not work at Anthropic/OpenAI - but the point is that this bar is convenient to hold yourself to. Did you "took actions to diminish my contribution, and eventually left. I do not begrudge other Americans who did less than I did." Or did you simply never work there, maybe never even had an offer to work there.
    - salawat 14d ago
      This isn't the gotcha you think it is, and you're basically accusing the individual of "sour grapes". It isn't clever, it's plainly transparent, and about the easiest way to trivialize someone else's moral convictions. Shame on you. Be better.
      - 14d ago

customguy 14d ago

> it's also the very definition of an Isolated Demand for Rigor. As if the author excluded other examples? What is your criticism, that the principle can also be applied to other things?