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This sounds super alarmist. Bit it’s not: the party only got 25%, so they will have to make a coalition with other parties to govern. They were junior party in

by ant6n 13d ago

This sounds super alarmist. Bit it’s not: the party only got 25%, so they will have to make a coalition with other parties to govern. They were junior party in many previous coalitions. The weird thing this election was: there were like 7 parties with a mayor candidate - and none of them grew up in Berlin.

Leonard_of_Q 13d ago
[flagged]
- mschuster91 13d ago
  Oh good lord, the utter majority of the Left Party today weren't even alive in the GDR period (and of those that were, a good bunch got yeeted to the BSW). And on top of that, all the other parties have gobbled up their East German Blockparteien as well and we don't label them collaborators either, nor do we call the CDU and especially CSU a Nazi party despite many former NSDAP members ending up there post WW2 (or a ton of them forming the AfD a decade ago).
  - tirant 13d ago
    Obviously after 36 years many people of Die Linke were not alive when the wall fell. But it’s still the same party as the SED, just a different name. The CDU and the CSU have nothing to do with the NSDAP. At some point in time in Germany 30% of the population were either part of the NSDAP or the Nazi Army. Luckily most of them were not war criminals and move on with their lives. And yes, some of them ended in the CDU/CSU but also of the SED/Die Linke. Just to give you an example, around 10-15% of the DDR state officials had held NSDAP membership pre-1945. Does that make the DDR a successor of the Nazi Regime? Obviously not. The same about the CDU/CSU. But Die Linke is still the same party as the SED. Same organization, which just voted themselves into different names.
    - Kbelicius 13d ago
      SED was Marxist–Leninist and Die Linke isn't. In what universe are they the same party?
      - Leonard_of_Q 13d ago
        What makes you think Die Linke gave up their "religion"? I don't see any indication of such a conversion in either the Party's saying or doing. The same claim was made about other communist parties, e.g. "Vänsterpartiet" in Sweden which translates to "The Left Party" (they're even walking in step when it comes to choosing new labels) but it doesn't take much (or any, really) effort to pierce that veil. I don't believe they gave up Marxism-Leninism, they just gave the monster a new name and claim it is nothing like its predecessor. They do that a lot, changing the label on the package. Inside it is still the same monster, waiting to be unleashed.
        mschuster91 13d ago
        Red Scare much? The Left of today is Democratic Socialist, if you look at their programme they're where the SPD was 30 years ago (i.e. pre Schröder and neoliberalism in the view of Tony Blair). If you want actual bona fide Marxist-Leninists, there's the cultists of MLPD.
        Leonard_of_Q 13d ago
        Answer the question much? You're just quoting labels like 'democratic socialist' as if they mean anything. Remember what PDS stands for? The modern left is just as infused with revolutionary ideology as the left in the 60's - 80's. They may use different labels but those don't mean anything. If anything it seems that the more a party claims to be democratic in words, the less they are in deeds.
        mschuster91 13d ago
        Have you actually read the party program?! I have a hard time finding your position to be backed with anything in there. And no, the few antisemites in Berlin Neukölln are not representatives for the entire federal party.
- plastic-enjoyer 13d ago
  Look, it's a nice sounding narrative with a sprinkle of truth, but it proves a lot less than it sounds like it does. There were specific reasons historical communism had such a large death toll, and it traces back mostly to the policies that were introduced and the decisions the political elite made. So I think it's fair to compare actual policies, and not to judge on the basis of whether someone calls themselves a communist, or whether that label gets applied to them. To my knowledge, Die Linke is not a revolutionary party, doesn't want to force through breakneck industrialization at any cost, and doesn't deny foundational agricultural science. It's also one of the few parties defending the Informationsfreiheitsgesetz (public access to government records) against the current government's push to gut it.
- deleted 13d ago
  [deleted]

by ant6n 13d ago

Leonard_of_Q 13d ago

[flagged]

mschuster91 13d ago
Oh good lord, the utter majority of the Left Party today weren't even alive in the GDR period (and of those that were, a good bunch got yeeted to the BSW). And on top of that, all the other parties have gobbled up their East German Blockparteien as well and we don't label them collaborators either, nor do we call the CDU and especially CSU a Nazi party despite many former NSDAP members ending up there post WW2 (or a ton of them forming the AfD a decade ago).
- tirant 13d ago
  Obviously after 36 years many people of Die Linke were not alive when the wall fell. But it’s still the same party as the SED, just a different name. The CDU and the CSU have nothing to do with the NSDAP. At some point in time in Germany 30% of the population were either part of the NSDAP or the Nazi Army. Luckily most of them were not war criminals and move on with their lives. And yes, some of them ended in the CDU/CSU but also of the SED/Die Linke. Just to give you an example, around 10-15% of the DDR state officials had held NSDAP membership pre-1945. Does that make the DDR a successor of the Nazi Regime? Obviously not. The same about the CDU/CSU. But Die Linke is still the same party as the SED. Same organization, which just voted themselves into different names.
  - Kbelicius 13d ago
    SED was Marxist–Leninist and Die Linke isn't. In what universe are they the same party?
    - Leonard_of_Q 13d ago
      What makes you think Die Linke gave up their "religion"? I don't see any indication of such a conversion in either the Party's saying or doing. The same claim was made about other communist parties, e.g. "Vänsterpartiet" in Sweden which translates to "The Left Party" (they're even walking in step when it comes to choosing new labels) but it doesn't take much (or any, really) effort to pierce that veil. I don't believe they gave up Marxism-Leninism, they just gave the monster a new name and claim it is nothing like its predecessor. They do that a lot, changing the label on the package. Inside it is still the same monster, waiting to be unleashed.
      - mschuster91 13d ago
        Red Scare much? The Left of today is Democratic Socialist, if you look at their programme they're where the SPD was 30 years ago (i.e. pre Schröder and neoliberalism in the view of Tony Blair). If you want actual bona fide Marxist-Leninists, there's the cultists of MLPD.
        Leonard_of_Q 13d ago
        Answer the question much? You're just quoting labels like 'democratic socialist' as if they mean anything. Remember what PDS stands for? The modern left is just as infused with revolutionary ideology as the left in the 60's - 80's. They may use different labels but those don't mean anything. If anything it seems that the more a party claims to be democratic in words, the less they are in deeds.
        mschuster91 13d ago
        Have you actually read the party program?! I have a hard time finding your position to be backed with anything in there. And no, the few antisemites in Berlin Neukölln are not representatives for the entire federal party.
plastic-enjoyer 13d ago
Look, it's a nice sounding narrative with a sprinkle of truth, but it proves a lot less than it sounds like it does. There were specific reasons historical communism had such a large death toll, and it traces back mostly to the policies that were introduced and the decisions the political elite made. So I think it's fair to compare actual policies, and not to judge on the basis of whether someone calls themselves a communist, or whether that label gets applied to them. To my knowledge, Die Linke is not a revolutionary party, doesn't want to force through breakneck industrialization at any cost, and doesn't deny foundational agricultural science. It's also one of the few parties defending the Informationsfreiheitsgesetz (public access to government records) against the current government's push to gut it.
deleted 13d ago
[deleted]