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Snowden has repeatedly talked about why he wouldn't return to US cos the trial won't be fair. He wanted to be able to talk. But due to his role, the trial would
by unsungNovelty 16d ago
Snowden has repeatedly talked about why he wouldn't return to US cos the trial won't be fair. He wanted to be able to talk. But due to his role, the trial would be a muppet one where he can't even talk. Or am I wrong?
At the time, look at the situation of Chelsea Manning, Julian Assange and the many whistle blowers before Snowden? How can u blame him?
Edit: Am unable to reply to comments. HN don't let you comment 2-3 levels in or is it moderation? - Fixed.
- nl 16d agoThe OP was right - avoiding a unfair trial is still fleeing. The word "flee" is not a pejorative in any way. For example flee North Korea all the time.
- unsungNovelty 16d agoNo. It is pejorative in the way it is used. Context is important.
- firesteelrain 16d agoThe problem is he can’t excuse the offense under the Espionage Act because it doesn’t have a public interest defense. One could argue that it should have that defense. But that doesn’t mean the resulting trial would have been a “muppet trial” He could have had counsel, challenged the government, and had a jury decide guilt. It would have been fair. It actually looks worse to flee like he did
- unsungNovelty 16d ago"doesn't have a public interest defence". Can't be serious.
- firesteelrain 16d agoThere isn’t one under the law so no. Why wasn’t the whistleblower process followed? Why didn’t he try to contact his congressman/ senator ? He could have said I don’t want a clearance anymore and disclosed his concerns. He could have reported anonymously even. He wanted public debate and discourse on something that the process didn’t allow
- unsungNovelty 16d agoWhat he exposed was found illegal by US courts. And the govt had to stop it. What more evidence do you want?
- lern_too_spel 16d agoA single program he leaked was illegal. The vast majority was not, including the hacking of Chinese targets that he leaked directly to SCMP.
- deleted 16d ago[deleted]
- anon7000 16d agoI don’t understand. He’s absolutely guilty of violating the US government and probably a handful of laws. I will respect him forever for doing that. But I completely agree that any trial he’d participate in is A) not going to be fair, because why would you trust the government on an issue like this, and B) not really necessary, because he didn’t do anything wrong, even if it was illegal. The only reason to NOT flee is if the government didn’t care about whistleblowers and has amazing protections for them, even in the context of national security. Does it? Maybe you think what he did was morally wrong. Who fucking cares, what the government was and is hiding is even more morally wrong.
- ShinyLeftPad 16d agoFor some people what Snowden did was the right thing. But settling in that particular country, makes it seem like he didn't do it from pureness of his heart. Maybe it was accidental but optics is optics. He took the easy way out that is best for him individually, which is understandable but undermined future debate on the question
- mitxela 16d agoWhere else would he go? Not many countries don't extradite you to the US for that. US enemies are your only options, and that fact is solely the fault of the US.
- ShinyLeftPad 16d agoNepal UAE Belarus Mongolia Vietnam Laos Montenegro Indonesia
- marsmaps 16d agothe same indonesia in which the us government helped organise mass killings of hundreds of thousands of alleged left-wing political activists and voters? [0] [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/the-indonesia-documents-and-the-us-agenda/543534/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/th... 'What the United States Did in Indonesia', The Atlantic
- slg 16d agoManning and Assange are both free today. Isn't that proof that whether it was reasonable to believe Snowden was correct at the time, history has proved him wrong?
- deleted 16d ago[deleted]
- unsungNovelty 16d agoNot sure. You are talking about a Snowden in 2013 who looks around and see Chelsea and Assange NOT free. He made the decision based on that and what has happened before. I also think what Snowden exposed is far far far bigger.
- marcus_holmes 16d agoAssange is only free because he was not extradited to the USA, and effectively served ~10 years imprisonment anyway. Manning got a presidential pardon. I wouldn't hold either of these up as a shining example of how the USA treats whistleblowers and journalists.
- lern_too_spel 16d ago[flagged]
- marcus_holmes 16d agoWhy is the focus always on what these people did, and not on the crimes that they exposed? Why are you saying "if they had done it differently they would be treated better" instead of "I am ashamed of the evil and illegal acts that my country has done and want to change the system to make this impossible"? Why do you care what either of them did more than you care about what the government did?
- varjag 16d agoWhich crimes had Manning exposed? There has to be a list somewhere.
- judge2020 16d agoWith the right/same lawyer, could've potentially worked out similarly to Kiriakou, who only had a few years behind bars and later became a celebrity due to his interviews.
- Arodex 16d agoIs Snowden able to talk freely in Russia?
- firesteelrain 16d agoAbout Russia? Nope.
- sandblast 16d ago*Bradley Manning