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The term "responsible disclosure" may no longer have any meaning. "Irresponsible disclosure" for the short term may be equivalent to "responsible disclosure" f

The term "responsible disclosure" may no longer have any meaning. "Irresponsible disclosure" for the short term may be equivalent to "responsible disclosure" for the long term. There must be some pretty dark stuff yet to be disclosed, and/or some pretty overt threats for those relatively fearless journalists to close ranks. The "Assange example" may have done its job perfectly.

iamnothere 5d ago
Not just Assange, basically everyone involved except maybe Poitras took a hit. Appelbaum was driven out of his work with Tor (and from public life) after a smear campaign, Greenwald had to shift to alt media, and Snowden had to flee the country. Other journalists and editors “moved on” from their work with the papers. Snowden did ask them not to get into any direct military secrets that were in the leaks, so that could explain some of the restraint.
- Arainach 5d ago
  > Greenwald had to shift to alt media Greenwald didn't "have" to do anything. His politics took a sharp turn towards the right-wing fringe and he lost his original audience.
  - starkd 5d ago
    Or maybe he just realized that politics is just one big club and he ain't in it. And neither are the people.
  - iamnothere 5d ago
    His politics have been remarkably consistent over time. He’s always been a slightly left-leaning, anti-war civil libertarian who is deeply suspicious of government, particularly the US government. He’s been posting lately about how Trump has been starting or expanding unjust wars and cracking down on press freedom. That’s hardly a “right-wing fringe” slant.
    - bdangubic 5d ago
      if he is slightly left leaning than Bernie is farthest of the far right US politicians
    - Arainach 5d ago
      Since 2016, he's appeared repeatedly in conservative outlets (including pushing conspiracy theories about Ukraine), gotten fired for uncritically pushing unsubstantiated claims from the Trump campaign as journalism, hosted a video podcast giving a voice to folks like RFK Jr. Other than speaking up against the surveillance state, he's been solidly aligned with conservative viewpoints.
      - iamnothere 5d ago
        He endorsed Bernie through 2023 when he (accurately) noted Sanders shifting away from anti-war/anti-imperialism positions, which seems to be Greenwald’s #1 focus. He was opposed to what he saw as the Biden admin’s role in perpetuating the Russia-Ukraine conflict and Biden-era “counter-disinformation” initiatives, which he is unsurprisingly opposed to. He maintains these positions under Trump while conservatives have moved against them; they are not “conservative” positions. I’m not opposed to people hosting interviews with political opponents, and reasonable people shouldn’t be opposed to that either.
        Arainach 5d ago
        By 2023, it's not "hosting interviews with political opponents" - it's obvious that giving a voice and publicity to people like RFK Jr. is actively harmful to society. Freedom of speech means we don't throw RFK in jail, but no one has to publicize his views.
        iamnothere 5d ago
        I disagree with you. It’s important to understand the perspectives of people actively involved in politics. Even (perhaps especially) those with fringe beliefs.
  - bluegatty 5d ago
    dont confuse 'anti right' with 'left'. There's a huge component of the left which is quite directly 'anti-authority', which they see in 'the right' in classical form. It's a form of personal identity less than ideology. You can spot them often by their total silence on Russian (or Chinese) Imperialism (and racism), as they try to blame the CIA for all the world's problems.
    - mitxela 5d ago
      Is that Glenn Greenwald's form?
- aaron_m04 5d ago
  So are you saying Applebaum was framed?
  - iamnothere 5d ago
    I am not party to all the information, but he was never charged for the alleged misconduct and Die Zeit’s investigation didn’t find it convincing. Given how the Assange allegations fell apart, I think there’s a non-zero possibility that it was a defamation campaign. He didn’t help himself with some public conduct/comments that painted him unfavorably. So there is that aspect to consider. But the scope of the campaign against him felt excessive at the time, to me.
    - crimsoneer 5d ago
      Did the Assange allegations fall apart? I thought he just hid until it became pretty irrelevant.
      - iamnothere 5d ago
        One of the accusers refused to sign their written statement, then disappeared. The other kept making contradictory statements and changed her story, and recently said she was “happy” that he was free, although she did not recant her accusation. Prosecutors also allegedly changed one of the statements to make it sound more serious, per the later UN investigation. They put out an Interpol notice and had him on the “most wanted” list for this, which is ridiculous. There is documented communication between the UK’s Crown Prosecution Service and Swedish authorities where the CPS is goading the Swedes into continuing the case, warning them not to get “cold feet.” The prosecution eventually dropped the case because they believed that the evidence was too weak, blaming the long gap in time. I’m not clear on how they thought the passage of time had weakened their evidence, which was limited to victim statements from the very beginning, AFAIK.
    - stickfigure 5d ago
      Stop the conspiracy talk. This was Jake's chaotic personal life coming home to roost. It's not more complicated than it seems.
- walrus01 5d ago
  > Greenwald had to shift to alt media That's a pretty generous and kind way to say "became a far-right lunatic regurgitating the same talking points you see from AfD politicians". I don't know what the hell happened to that guy. But he clearly went off the deep end.
  - rerdavies 5d ago
    ... but only after making $400K+/year for seven years, winning a Pulitzer Prize, and then CHOOSING to leave The Intercept because they wouldn't publish his extreme far-right lunatic stuff. If Greenwald isn't currently doing well, I don't think you can really say that it was because of the Snowden papers. Very generous indeed.
    - walrus01 5d ago
      As I recall he became fixated on the contents of Hunter Biden's laptop, to the extent that he got himself fired from The Intercept over it. Maybe he saw the pictures of naked Biden and became absolutely obsessed with the photo gallery of coke and dong.
      - rerdavies 5d ago
        Hard to say whether he resigned, or "resigned". And I'm not sure there's a huge difference, practically speaking. By Greenwald's account, it was the former, I think. Either way, he took his marbles and went home. In fairness, I can imagine why, after having spent 7 years of his life mining through the Snowden archive, spending another few years mining the Biden hard disk might have been attractive.
  - microtherion 5d ago
    It would probably be more accurate to say that for some time, his politics (opposing the Iraq war & the surveillance state) looked sympathetic to many people. His later embrace of Trump & Putin rather undermined the idea that his politics was based on deep libertarian principles. But in reality he had already done some fairly vile things by then already, e.g.: * Defending murderous Neo Nazis (not vile in itself, they need lawyers too) while calling their victims “odious and repugnant”. * Running escort websites and producing cinematic masterpieces such as “Piss Boys in Love”, both with the involvement of his then-boyfriend and later husband David Miranda, under circumstances that seem rather exploitative of the Brazilians involved. https://masternotions.com https://masternotions.com
LastTrain 5d ago
Why must there be?
- deleted 5d ago
  [deleted]
lern_too_spel 5d ago
You would think if there was something really terrible in the documents, Snowden would have talked about it first. Instead, he mostly talked about PRISM, which turned out to be a nothingburger when Greenwald released the documents that Snowden had misinterpreted.
- wvbdmp 5d ago
  In what way is PRISM a nothingburger? You’ve been making this claim repeatedly in this thread.
  - lern_too_spel 5d ago
    In that it was perfectly legal. Snowden, with his high school dropout reading skills thought it allowed the NSA to pull any account's data directly off the companies' servers, and Greenwald, with his technical illiteracy, believed him. The Guardian didn't have a competent news editor and allowed the story to be printed without verification from an expert, while pretty much every other news agency got the story right. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49785016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49785016

iamnothere 5d ago

Not just Assange, basically everyone involved except maybe Poitras took a hit. Appelbaum was driven out of his work with Tor (and from public life) after a smear campaign, Greenwald had to shift to alt media, and Snowden had to flee the country. Other journalists and editors “moved on” from their work with the papers. Snowden did ask them not to get into any direct military secrets that were in the leaks, so that could explain some of the restraint.

Arainach 5d ago
> Greenwald had to shift to alt media Greenwald didn't "have" to do anything. His politics took a sharp turn towards the right-wing fringe and he lost his original audience.
- starkd 5d ago
  Or maybe he just realized that politics is just one big club and he ain't in it. And neither are the people.
- iamnothere 5d ago
  His politics have been remarkably consistent over time. He’s always been a slightly left-leaning, anti-war civil libertarian who is deeply suspicious of government, particularly the US government. He’s been posting lately about how Trump has been starting or expanding unjust wars and cracking down on press freedom. That’s hardly a “right-wing fringe” slant.
  - bdangubic 5d ago
    if he is slightly left leaning than Bernie is farthest of the far right US politicians
  - Arainach 5d ago
    Since 2016, he's appeared repeatedly in conservative outlets (including pushing conspiracy theories about Ukraine), gotten fired for uncritically pushing unsubstantiated claims from the Trump campaign as journalism, hosted a video podcast giving a voice to folks like RFK Jr. Other than speaking up against the surveillance state, he's been solidly aligned with conservative viewpoints.
    - iamnothere 5d ago
      He endorsed Bernie through 2023 when he (accurately) noted Sanders shifting away from anti-war/anti-imperialism positions, which seems to be Greenwald’s #1 focus. He was opposed to what he saw as the Biden admin’s role in perpetuating the Russia-Ukraine conflict and Biden-era “counter-disinformation” initiatives, which he is unsurprisingly opposed to. He maintains these positions under Trump while conservatives have moved against them; they are not “conservative” positions. I’m not opposed to people hosting interviews with political opponents, and reasonable people shouldn’t be opposed to that either.
      - Arainach 5d ago
        By 2023, it's not "hosting interviews with political opponents" - it's obvious that giving a voice and publicity to people like RFK Jr. is actively harmful to society. Freedom of speech means we don't throw RFK in jail, but no one has to publicize his views.
        iamnothere 5d ago
        I disagree with you. It’s important to understand the perspectives of people actively involved in politics. Even (perhaps especially) those with fringe beliefs.
- bluegatty 5d ago
  dont confuse 'anti right' with 'left'. There's a huge component of the left which is quite directly 'anti-authority', which they see in 'the right' in classical form. It's a form of personal identity less than ideology. You can spot them often by their total silence on Russian (or Chinese) Imperialism (and racism), as they try to blame the CIA for all the world's problems.
  - mitxela 5d ago
    Is that Glenn Greenwald's form?
aaron_m04 5d ago
So are you saying Applebaum was framed?
- iamnothere 5d ago
  I am not party to all the information, but he was never charged for the alleged misconduct and Die Zeit’s investigation didn’t find it convincing. Given how the Assange allegations fell apart, I think there’s a non-zero possibility that it was a defamation campaign. He didn’t help himself with some public conduct/comments that painted him unfavorably. So there is that aspect to consider. But the scope of the campaign against him felt excessive at the time, to me.
  - crimsoneer 5d ago
    Did the Assange allegations fall apart? I thought he just hid until it became pretty irrelevant.
    - iamnothere 5d ago
      One of the accusers refused to sign their written statement, then disappeared. The other kept making contradictory statements and changed her story, and recently said she was “happy” that he was free, although she did not recant her accusation. Prosecutors also allegedly changed one of the statements to make it sound more serious, per the later UN investigation. They put out an Interpol notice and had him on the “most wanted” list for this, which is ridiculous. There is documented communication between the UK’s Crown Prosecution Service and Swedish authorities where the CPS is goading the Swedes into continuing the case, warning them not to get “cold feet.” The prosecution eventually dropped the case because they believed that the evidence was too weak, blaming the long gap in time. I’m not clear on how they thought the passage of time had weakened their evidence, which was limited to victim statements from the very beginning, AFAIK.
  - stickfigure 5d ago
    Stop the conspiracy talk. This was Jake's chaotic personal life coming home to roost. It's not more complicated than it seems.
walrus01 5d ago
> Greenwald had to shift to alt media That's a pretty generous and kind way to say "became a far-right lunatic regurgitating the same talking points you see from AfD politicians". I don't know what the hell happened to that guy. But he clearly went off the deep end.
- rerdavies 5d ago
  ... but only after making $400K+/year for seven years, winning a Pulitzer Prize, and then CHOOSING to leave The Intercept because they wouldn't publish his extreme far-right lunatic stuff. If Greenwald isn't currently doing well, I don't think you can really say that it was because of the Snowden papers. Very generous indeed.
  - walrus01 5d ago
    As I recall he became fixated on the contents of Hunter Biden's laptop, to the extent that he got himself fired from The Intercept over it. Maybe he saw the pictures of naked Biden and became absolutely obsessed with the photo gallery of coke and dong.
    - rerdavies 5d ago
      Hard to say whether he resigned, or "resigned". And I'm not sure there's a huge difference, practically speaking. By Greenwald's account, it was the former, I think. Either way, he took his marbles and went home. In fairness, I can imagine why, after having spent 7 years of his life mining through the Snowden archive, spending another few years mining the Biden hard disk might have been attractive.
- microtherion 5d ago
  It would probably be more accurate to say that for some time, his politics (opposing the Iraq war & the surveillance state) looked sympathetic to many people. His later embrace of Trump & Putin rather undermined the idea that his politics was based on deep libertarian principles. But in reality he had already done some fairly vile things by then already, e.g.: * Defending murderous Neo Nazis (not vile in itself, they need lawyers too) while calling their victims “odious and repugnant”. * Running escort websites and producing cinematic masterpieces such as “Piss Boys in Love”, both with the involvement of his then-boyfriend and later husband David Miranda, under circumstances that seem rather exploitative of the Brazilians involved. https://masternotions.com https://masternotions.com

LastTrain 5d ago

Why must there be?

deleted 5d ago
[deleted]

lern_too_spel 5d ago

You would think if there was something really terrible in the documents, Snowden would have talked about it first. Instead, he mostly talked about PRISM, which turned out to be a nothingburger when Greenwald released the documents that Snowden had misinterpreted.

wvbdmp 5d ago
In what way is PRISM a nothingburger? You’ve been making this claim repeatedly in this thread.
- lern_too_spel 5d ago
  In that it was perfectly legal. Snowden, with his high school dropout reading skills thought it allowed the NSA to pull any account's data directly off the companies' servers, and Greenwald, with his technical illiteracy, believed him. The Guardian didn't have a competent news editor and allowed the story to be printed without verification from an expert, while pretty much every other news agency got the story right. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49785016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49785016