4 ms·

Every change to the source is effectively a new torrent. This creates a ton of fragmentation as data is reorganized, remixed, reencoded, and so on. You can see

Every change to the source is effectively a new torrent. This creates a ton of fragmentation as data is reorganized, remixed, reencoded, and so on. You can see this with many Linux distros: there is no single Debian torrent that people seed for years because there's always a refreshed version. Distros are a bad use case for P2P anyway since you depend on upstream as soon as you start upgrading and installing packages.

righthand 12d ago
> Distros are a bad use case for P2P anyway since you depend on upstream as soon as you start upgrading and installing packages. This is true for any distribution method not just p2p. You can even download a nightly through torrents so what does it matter how the data is transferred if it’s always going to require `apt update`?
- zenoprax 12d ago
  Yeah, I just use the "netinstaller" ISOs since it's much smaller and never needs to be updated. If I had a need for air-gapped/offline installs I'd either download a larger ISO or just manually install packages from .deb as needed.
chmod775 12d ago
You can trivially have storage deduplication for the files served via torrent, transparent to the protocol. The most trivial version of this that you can do today with pretty much any client is having a single directory containing files serving multiple overlapping torrents.
- skeledrew 12d ago
  > files serving multiple overlapping torrents This sounds wildly complex, especially from a discovery perspective.
  - chmod775 12d ago
    I don't see why it would be. It's transparent to other clients just like it is to the protocol. It cannot be more complex than alternatives by construction.
- deadbunny 11d ago
  Or use a filesystem with dedupe like ZFS.
NooneAtAll3 12d ago
but model releases are already non-changeable?
- zenoprax 12d ago
  Yes, models are a good use for P2P especially if everyone agrees to share the same torrent and someone (or a cohort) commit to seeding for the long haul.
vova_hn2 12d ago
IPFS has a solution [0] to this problem [0] https://specs.ipfs.tech/ipns/ipns-record/ https://specs.ipfs.tech/ipns/ipns-record/
- mitxela 12d ago
  Most of IPFS doesn't actually work very well, if you've ever tried to use it
  - vova_hn2 12d ago
    > if you've ever tried to use it Heh, you got me :) IPFS is one of those things that I love reading and about and thinking about using someday, but somehow never get around to it.
    - mitxela 12d ago
      The problems begin with taking 5-10 minutes to locate a file on the network. That's right, when you ask for a file it takes 5-10 minutes. Also if the file isn't in the network at all then it never terminates. Nobody noticed because everyone just used the central web gateway that cached every file anyone ever accessed.

righthand 12d ago

> Distros are a bad use case for P2P anyway since you depend on upstream as soon as you start upgrading and installing packages. This is true for any distribution method not just p2p. You can even download a nightly through torrents so what does it matter how the data is transferred if it’s always going to require `apt update`?

zenoprax 12d ago
Yeah, I just use the "netinstaller" ISOs since it's much smaller and never needs to be updated. If I had a need for air-gapped/offline installs I'd either download a larger ISO or just manually install packages from .deb as needed.

chmod775 12d ago

You can trivially have storage deduplication for the files served via torrent, transparent to the protocol. The most trivial version of this that you can do today with pretty much any client is having a single directory containing files serving multiple overlapping torrents.

skeledrew 12d ago
> files serving multiple overlapping torrents This sounds wildly complex, especially from a discovery perspective.
- chmod775 12d ago
  I don't see why it would be. It's transparent to other clients just like it is to the protocol. It cannot be more complex than alternatives by construction.
deadbunny 11d ago
Or use a filesystem with dedupe like ZFS.

NooneAtAll3 12d ago

but model releases are already non-changeable?

zenoprax 12d ago
Yes, models are a good use for P2P especially if everyone agrees to share the same torrent and someone (or a cohort) commit to seeding for the long haul.

vova_hn2 12d ago

IPFS has a solution [0] to this problem [0] https://specs.ipfs.tech/ipns/ipns-record/ https://specs.ipfs.tech/ipns/ipns-record/

mitxela 12d ago
Most of IPFS doesn't actually work very well, if you've ever tried to use it
- vova_hn2 12d ago
  > if you've ever tried to use it Heh, you got me :) IPFS is one of those things that I love reading and about and thinking about using someday, but somehow never get around to it.
  - mitxela 12d ago
    The problems begin with taking 5-10 minutes to locate a file on the network. That's right, when you ask for a file it takes 5-10 minutes. Also if the file isn't in the network at all then it never terminates. Nobody noticed because everyone just used the central web gateway that cached every file anyone ever accessed.