3 ms·

we have had a home manufacturing revolution, though, and making every kind of hardware is crazy accessible, look at the explosion of niche products in every sin

we have had a home manufacturing revolution, though, and making every kind of hardware is crazy accessible, look at the explosion of niche products in every single hobby space over the past ten years I miss absolutely nothing about etching my own single layer PCBs at home

in_absentia 11d ago
First, PCBs: neither do I, I'm not sure why you're assuming that's the position I want to take. This has nothing to do with 3D printing or mail-order metal parts. Second, I don't think there's a revolution for the general population. Your archetypal middle-aged dad / curious teenager are DIYing less than 20 years ago, which in turn was less than 40 years ago. The stats here are clear, most of "garage" occupations are on the decline. Less space, higher costs, more emphasis on safety. Some hobbies, such as backyard chemistry, are effectively gone. Shop classes in most schools are gone. Making your own bookshelf or building a radio from a kit is no longer a rite of passage. Third, the "explosion of niche products" - maybe, but I think some of it is just visibility. Kickstarter, HN, Hack-a-Day, and so on. Before that, we had hobby journals for woodworking, electronics, etc, and they were always full of ads for niche gear. You just weren't seeing the totality of it in a doom-scroll loop. Visibility has benefits, but my point is that the qualitative change isn't as profound.
- necovek 11d ago
  I actually believe it's mostly about cost. Things you'd DIY in the past are now crazily accessible: DIY is usually more expensive than getting a commodity product.
kakwa_ 10d ago
Personally I looked at etching and said "no". But still, I would love to have a way to build PCBs at home and I'm keeping an eye on people (mostly the Opulo/LumenPnp guy) experimenting milling and more recently engraving with fiber & UV lasers.
- bluGill 10d ago
  I've reached the point where I know I'll die before I get a faction of my todo list done. Building PCBs is on of those required steps for several parts of my todo list, and so I'll be glad to outsource if that is affordable. (if is key here, if it turns out expensive I might get a setup to do my own)
  - kakwa_ 10d ago
    PCB manufacturing is reasonably cheap. YMMV, but JLCPCB was ~$20 for a set of 5 boards (minimal order quantity) last time I ordered. What you lose is not monetary, it's the ability to iterate quickly. It can be mitigated with next day manufacturing+delivery from local manufacturers... at a cost (IIRC, ~$80). But frankly, it would be nicer to pluck a blank board in a laser, press burn, and have a good enough board in 10 minutes. Fiber lasers are kind of capable of doing that, but they are still a bit expensive (~$2000), the result is imperfect (scorched epoxy board), and you can do at most 2 layers... if you are willing to manually tap rivet vias to connect the layers.

in_absentia 11d ago

First, PCBs: neither do I, I'm not sure why you're assuming that's the position I want to take. This has nothing to do with 3D printing or mail-order metal parts. Second, I don't think there's a revolution for the general population. Your archetypal middle-aged dad / curious teenager are DIYing less than 20 years ago, which in turn was less than 40 years ago. The stats here are clear, most of "garage" occupations are on the decline. Less space, higher costs, more emphasis on safety. Some hobbies, such as backyard chemistry, are effectively gone. Shop classes in most schools are gone. Making your own bookshelf or building a radio from a kit is no longer a rite of passage. Third, the "explosion of niche products" - maybe, but I think some of it is just visibility. Kickstarter, HN, Hack-a-Day, and so on. Before that, we had hobby journals for woodworking, electronics, etc, and they were always full of ads for niche gear. You just weren't seeing the totality of it in a doom-scroll loop. Visibility has benefits, but my point is that the qualitative change isn't as profound.

necovek 11d ago
I actually believe it's mostly about cost. Things you'd DIY in the past are now crazily accessible: DIY is usually more expensive than getting a commodity product.

kakwa_ 10d ago

Personally I looked at etching and said "no". But still, I would love to have a way to build PCBs at home and I'm keeping an eye on people (mostly the Opulo/LumenPnp guy) experimenting milling and more recently engraving with fiber & UV lasers.

bluGill 10d ago
I've reached the point where I know I'll die before I get a faction of my todo list done. Building PCBs is on of those required steps for several parts of my todo list, and so I'll be glad to outsource if that is affordable. (if is key here, if it turns out expensive I might get a setup to do my own)
- kakwa_ 10d ago
  PCB manufacturing is reasonably cheap. YMMV, but JLCPCB was ~$20 for a set of 5 boards (minimal order quantity) last time I ordered. What you lose is not monetary, it's the ability to iterate quickly. It can be mitigated with next day manufacturing+delivery from local manufacturers... at a cost (IIRC, ~$80). But frankly, it would be nicer to pluck a blank board in a laser, press burn, and have a good enough board in 10 minutes. Fiber lasers are kind of capable of doing that, but they are still a bit expensive (~$2000), the result is imperfect (scorched epoxy board), and you can do at most 2 layers... if you are willing to manually tap rivet vias to connect the layers.