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These questions will never go anywhere because there is no good definition of intelligence or consciousness.

by tock 6d ago

scotty79 6d ago
There is a good definition of intelligence. It's what intelligence tests measure. If you define it like that, you can make harder tests, but as long as both humans and AIs can attempt to solve them we have measure and something to compare. Consciousness though might be fully illusory and meaningless as many philosophical concepts before ultimately turned out to be.
- tock 6d ago
  > If you define it like that :)
  - scotty79 6d ago
    The point is, defining it like that has merit proven in decades before AI.
- pixl97 6d ago
  Intelligent needs to bedefined with scales. Cells are intelligent. Organs have intelligence on top of that, that cells do not have. Plants and animals have intelligence that their organs do not. This is the real problem of intelligence, the definition one uses. It can cause them to be blind of all the things intelligence is capable of.
- slopinthebag 6d ago
  > There is a good definition of intelligence. It's what intelligence tests measure. what do intelligence tests measure?
  - scotty79 6d ago
    Intelligence. It's not an exact analogy, rather something to consider ... How much momentum does a body have? You can measure it easily, just measure the velocity and the mass and multiply. What exactly did you measure? What is the meaning of this? Nobody really knows. But we know we can measure this and it's a thing and it's conserved.
    - slopinthebag 5d ago
      eh, momentum has a pretty rigorous definition and it's possible to define it qualitatively. perhaps a better example would have been hardness, where A is harder than B when it scratches B in a test. but it's borderline, and quite a bit different from true circular reasoning test X measures I(x) I(x) is defined as the thing test X measures. Therefore test X measures the pre-existing psychological trait intelligence. this is absurd

These questions will never go anywhere because there is no good definition of intelligence or consciousness.

by tock 6d ago

These questions will never go anywhere because there is no good definition of intelligence or consciousness.

There is a good definition of intelligence. It's what intelligence tests measure. If you define it like that, you can make harder tests, but as long as both humans and AIs can attempt to solve them we have measure and something to compare. Consciousness though might be fully illusory and meaningless as many philosophical concepts before ultimately turned out to be.

tock 6d ago
> If you define it like that :)
- scotty79 6d ago
  The point is, defining it like that has merit proven in decades before AI.
pixl97 6d ago
Intelligent needs to bedefined with scales. Cells are intelligent. Organs have intelligence on top of that, that cells do not have. Plants and animals have intelligence that their organs do not. This is the real problem of intelligence, the definition one uses. It can cause them to be blind of all the things intelligence is capable of.
slopinthebag 6d ago
> There is a good definition of intelligence. It's what intelligence tests measure. what do intelligence tests measure?
- scotty79 6d ago
  Intelligence. It's not an exact analogy, rather something to consider ... How much momentum does a body have? You can measure it easily, just measure the velocity and the mass and multiply. What exactly did you measure? What is the meaning of this? Nobody really knows. But we know we can measure this and it's a thing and it's conserved.
  - slopinthebag 5d ago
    eh, momentum has a pretty rigorous definition and it's possible to define it qualitatively. perhaps a better example would have been hardness, where A is harder than B when it scratches B in a test. but it's borderline, and quite a bit different from true circular reasoning test X measures I(x) I(x) is defined as the thing test X measures. Therefore test X measures the pre-existing psychological trait intelligence. this is absurd