3 ms·

Maybe not from the start, but definitely since the EU sunk its teeth into it. We can look forward to ID-controls for everything online, and monitoring of what w

Maybe not from the start, but definitely since the EU sunk its teeth into it. We can look forward to ID-controls for everything online, and monitoring of what we write. Should anyone deviate from the EU leftist narrative they will be fined, disconnected, imprisoned or all three. The result is of course that the internet will split in two. The day-job internet, centered on earning money, and not on expressing thoughts. Then we have the darknet where ideas can be discussed freely, without the government monitoring you. Sadly this internet will never be accessible to the common man, who in time, will be taught never to discuss politics and ideas in public. We will get the kitchen table culture of the soviet union, all thanks to the EU now building out a massive surveillance machine with ID-verification, and chat control (which will eventually pass, be it under that name, or any other). At least we now know that the EU and China are closer in terms of ideology and control than we first thought. It is sad, but such is life.

Tanjreeve 12d ago
> Should anyone deviate from the EU leftist narrative they will be fined, disconnected, imprisoned or all three. If there's one thing that distinguishes leftist regimes it corporate friendly property law policies to enable free markets. > The result is of course that the internet will split in two. The day-job internet, centered on earning money, and not on expressing thoughts. Then we have the darknet where ideas can be discussed freely, without the government monitoring you. Sadly this internet will never be accessible to the common man, who in time, will be taught never to discuss politics and ideas in public. We will get the kitchen table culture of the soviet union, all thanks to the EU now building out a massive surveillance machine with ID-verification, and chat control (which will eventually pass, be it under that name, or any other). That sounds better to me? Civil society spaces shouldn't be for making money and vice versa. Surely we can't look at what's happened to twitter where you basically get corporate sponsorship for rage baiting on the internet and think that's an improvement? The most effective political action recently has been hyperlocal neighbourhood groups getting mad and turning up to data centre meetings en-masse and letting local representatives know that they are all know where they live. Spouting off on the internet has been weaponised to force people into inaction and is easily corralled as there are so few of these mega platforms and they're easy to buy and manipulate centrally.
- hunterpayne 12d ago
  leftist != Liberal. And the EU leftists aren't liberal in any real way. That's why terms like left and right don't mean anything outside of a specific place and time and even then, its just shorthand. If they were liberal, none of this would be happening. Being liberal is hard but saying you are liberal is a great way to hide socialist and authoritarian tendencies. And that's the problem. If they were actually liberal, they wouldn't be censoring the Internet. Liberals believe in free speech, socialists don't. Its a big tell as which kind of leftist you are.
  - js8 12d ago
    I am from EU, leftist, socialist and liberal (the left parts), and I can assure you, (a) most leftists (90%) are as liberal and antiauthoritarian as it gets, and (b) we are as powerless to change these things as you are. Possibly, if you choose to believe me, things can change, but it's on you.
    - mitxela 11d ago
      Liberal doesn't mean supporting liberty, it means some interpolation between supporting free markets (neoliberal means just this one), and pretending that as long as we just follow the established institutional norms everything is fine and there is no need for radical change. It's synonymous right now for "centrist" - note that political labels drift over time.
      - js8 11d ago
        Liberalism has both economic (free market) roots and political roots. The first "leftists" were the French revolutionaries and they wanted (political) freedom as well. The reason liberalism is in the "center" is because both left and right tried to appropriate it. (Although I think liberalism, in the sense of individual freedom, is a distinct value from other values such as conservative/authoritarian or socialist/communal.)
        11d ago
welwala 12d ago
>Maybe not from the start, but definitely since the EU sunk its teeth into it. We can look forward to ID-controls for everything online, and monitoring of what we write. Yes, they just made a big step in that direction by requiring age verification on social media for everyone :( > Should anyone deviate from the EU leftist narrative they will be fined, disconnected, imprisoned or all three. That is not happening though. But they are building the machinery to do things like this.
- miki123211 11d ago
  I don't think we'll ever see an EU law specifically mandating disconnection / imprisonment of individuals who disagree with the prevailing narrative. An EU law that puts large fines on social media companies for doing entirely unrelated things, like, let's say, personalized advertising? A law that makes it almost impossible to operate profitably in the EU if enforced, but one that the government can enforce selectively? A law that lets the EU commission brand certain companies as "Gatekeepers" if it so wishes, while leaving others unbranded? A law that could, perhaps, be enforced far less strictly against companies which, due to their outstanding moral principles and care for humanity, choose to ban (or, better, algorithmically deboost) certain individuals, or maybe entirely voluntarily act as concerned citizens and report them to law enforcement, with no official duty to do so? Now that sounds a lot more believable.
  - shevy-java 11d ago
    > An EU law that puts large fines on social media companies for doing entirely unrelated things, like, let's say, personalized advertising? But this is not about fines on companies. It is to force age sniffing onto people. The state sniffs for ID here. That's the new part. > care for humanity, choose to ban (or, better, algorithmically deboost) certain individuals I think in France there is the three-strikes crap law. After that people are forbidden to access the www. This is terrorism by a state. And censorship. Typical for a dictatorship. The label democracy is just equally as fake here as Putin's Duma "elections" auto-awarding the genocidal dictator with "now I can mass-mobilize people and kill many thousand people more".
- 11d ago
expedition32 12d ago
The real things that kill the internet is tech bros who learned you can make money with the internet and ofcourse AI which will make sure the internet becomes bots who communicate with other bots.
- philipallstar 11d ago
  The internet costs money to run. Obviously you need to make money.
  - account42 11d ago
    Why does that obviously follow?
    - WarmWash 11d ago
      Because people like yourself don't work for free, and more over, generally have the feeling that they aren't paid enough for their work.
  - BlaDeKke 11d ago
    I pay for my internet connection.
    - rpdillon 11d ago
      Right, and businesses need to pay for theirs.
thesuitonym 11d ago
> Should anyone deviate from the EU leftist narrative they will be fined, disconnected, imprisoned or all three. Big government censorship and surveillance capitalism are actually right-wing ideologies.
catlikesshrimp 11d ago
Should Europe deviate to the rightist narrative? (You know, afd and such) The discussion must be agaisnt authoritarism.

Tanjreeve 12d ago

> Should anyone deviate from the EU leftist narrative they will be fined, disconnected, imprisoned or all three. If there's one thing that distinguishes leftist regimes it corporate friendly property law policies to enable free markets. > The result is of course that the internet will split in two. The day-job internet, centered on earning money, and not on expressing thoughts. Then we have the darknet where ideas can be discussed freely, without the government monitoring you. Sadly this internet will never be accessible to the common man, who in time, will be taught never to discuss politics and ideas in public. We will get the kitchen table culture of the soviet union, all thanks to the EU now building out a massive surveillance machine with ID-verification, and chat control (which will eventually pass, be it under that name, or any other). That sounds better to me? Civil society spaces shouldn't be for making money and vice versa. Surely we can't look at what's happened to twitter where you basically get corporate sponsorship for rage baiting on the internet and think that's an improvement? The most effective political action recently has been hyperlocal neighbourhood groups getting mad and turning up to data centre meetings en-masse and letting local representatives know that they are all know where they live. Spouting off on the internet has been weaponised to force people into inaction and is easily corralled as there are so few of these mega platforms and they're easy to buy and manipulate centrally.

hunterpayne 12d ago
leftist != Liberal. And the EU leftists aren't liberal in any real way. That's why terms like left and right don't mean anything outside of a specific place and time and even then, its just shorthand. If they were liberal, none of this would be happening. Being liberal is hard but saying you are liberal is a great way to hide socialist and authoritarian tendencies. And that's the problem. If they were actually liberal, they wouldn't be censoring the Internet. Liberals believe in free speech, socialists don't. Its a big tell as which kind of leftist you are.
- js8 12d ago
  I am from EU, leftist, socialist and liberal (the left parts), and I can assure you, (a) most leftists (90%) are as liberal and antiauthoritarian as it gets, and (b) we are as powerless to change these things as you are. Possibly, if you choose to believe me, things can change, but it's on you.
  - mitxela 11d ago
    Liberal doesn't mean supporting liberty, it means some interpolation between supporting free markets (neoliberal means just this one), and pretending that as long as we just follow the established institutional norms everything is fine and there is no need for radical change. It's synonymous right now for "centrist" - note that political labels drift over time.
    - js8 11d ago
      Liberalism has both economic (free market) roots and political roots. The first "leftists" were the French revolutionaries and they wanted (political) freedom as well. The reason liberalism is in the "center" is because both left and right tried to appropriate it. (Although I think liberalism, in the sense of individual freedom, is a distinct value from other values such as conservative/authoritarian or socialist/communal.)
      - 11d ago

welwala 12d ago

>Maybe not from the start, but definitely since the EU sunk its teeth into it. We can look forward to ID-controls for everything online, and monitoring of what we write. Yes, they just made a big step in that direction by requiring age verification on social media for everyone :( > Should anyone deviate from the EU leftist narrative they will be fined, disconnected, imprisoned or all three. That is not happening though. But they are building the machinery to do things like this.

miki123211 11d ago
I don't think we'll ever see an EU law specifically mandating disconnection / imprisonment of individuals who disagree with the prevailing narrative. An EU law that puts large fines on social media companies for doing entirely unrelated things, like, let's say, personalized advertising? A law that makes it almost impossible to operate profitably in the EU if enforced, but one that the government can enforce selectively? A law that lets the EU commission brand certain companies as "Gatekeepers" if it so wishes, while leaving others unbranded? A law that could, perhaps, be enforced far less strictly against companies which, due to their outstanding moral principles and care for humanity, choose to ban (or, better, algorithmically deboost) certain individuals, or maybe entirely voluntarily act as concerned citizens and report them to law enforcement, with no official duty to do so? Now that sounds a lot more believable.
- shevy-java 11d ago
  > An EU law that puts large fines on social media companies for doing entirely unrelated things, like, let's say, personalized advertising? But this is not about fines on companies. It is to force age sniffing onto people. The state sniffs for ID here. That's the new part. > care for humanity, choose to ban (or, better, algorithmically deboost) certain individuals I think in France there is the three-strikes crap law. After that people are forbidden to access the www. This is terrorism by a state. And censorship. Typical for a dictatorship. The label democracy is just equally as fake here as Putin's Duma "elections" auto-awarding the genocidal dictator with "now I can mass-mobilize people and kill many thousand people more".
11d ago

expedition32 12d ago

The real things that kill the internet is tech bros who learned you can make money with the internet and ofcourse AI which will make sure the internet becomes bots who communicate with other bots.

philipallstar 11d ago
The internet costs money to run. Obviously you need to make money.
- account42 11d ago
  Why does that obviously follow?
  - WarmWash 11d ago
    Because people like yourself don't work for free, and more over, generally have the feeling that they aren't paid enough for their work.
- BlaDeKke 11d ago
  I pay for my internet connection.
  - rpdillon 11d ago
    Right, and businesses need to pay for theirs.

thesuitonym 11d ago

> Should anyone deviate from the EU leftist narrative they will be fined, disconnected, imprisoned or all three. Big government censorship and surveillance capitalism are actually right-wing ideologies.

catlikesshrimp 11d ago

Should Europe deviate to the rightist narrative? (You know, afd and such) The discussion must be agaisnt authoritarism.