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Why announce that you’re incapable of allowing someone to hold an opinion that doesn’t match yours? Would it be so wrong for someone to enjoy something in a di

by monkpit 13d ago

Why announce that you’re incapable of allowing someone to hold an opinion that doesn’t match yours? Would it be so wrong for someone to enjoy something in a different way than you do? Or should they be chastised for enjoying it the wrong way? You’re welcome to ask what brings them enjoyment, to broaden your views, instead of dismissing them.

noodletheworld 12d ago
Bluntly? Because it’s a meaningless opinion. You like coding, but not the algorithms. You like books but not the story. This isn't “I will play it my way”; its heres a BS reason why legitimate critique can be dismissed out of hand. “Oh, but for me its not about of the food tastes good” Ok. Sure. You do You. …but if someone says: that meal was rubbish and tasteless, is it so outrageous to call out “but I don't care about the taste” as incomprehensible nonsense to the majority of people? Am I being outrageous here? What does the the “rp” stand for in rpg? You tell me.
- cgriswald 12d ago
  There is more than one thing to enjoy about anything and yes, someone may enjoy aspects you aren’t even aware of even if they don’t enjoy the aspect you think of as the core aspect. You brought up the subject of food, but not everyone even agrees that taste is the most important element. For some it’s the social aspect of the meal. For some it’s the nutritional value. Some may only tolerate the taste of something but enjoy the texture or the warm feeling in their belly. People can also eat things they don’t enjoy but be glad they did for the experience of just trying that thing. It isn’t outrageous that you don’t understand it. It does imply that you’re blind to all the other aspects of games that bring people enjoyment. You personally would probably be better off not trying to defend this and instead trying to understand the views others have. You could just ask the poster what he does care about in games.
  - noodletheworld 12d ago
    > It does imply that you’re blind to all the other aspects of games that bring people enjoyment. Like what? I’m not making a sweeping generalisation here about how people play games. We’re talking about chrono cross. For a story driven JRPG like CT / CC specifically, if you don’t care about the characters or story, there is no reason to achieve any goal in the game. I’m not so proud I can’t admit to being wrong; but in a JRPG there is no game without the character driven story. If you imagine replacing Kid and Serge with cardboard cutouts labeled A-san and B-san, what are you enjoying about the game?
    - cgriswald 12d ago
      I can’t speak for the poster and I haven’t played that game, but I’ve played other JRPGs. Here’s a list of some of the things I can enjoy in a game, JRPG or otherwise, that aren’t necessarily story or character related: technical details/neat hacks, novelty, atmosphere, gameplay/battle/magic/weaponsystems, exploration, finding secrets/special items, level design, enemy and boss design and fights, cinematography (framing, contrast, …), immersion, design elements, collecting things, trying to break the game, talking about the game with others, connection and comparison with other games and media, translation, acting, my mental reaction (turning my brain off/lighting it up) …
- t-3 12d ago
  I like games for the mechanics and gameplay. Cutscenes and dialogue just get in the way. Old-school ascii roguelikes are RPGs but most have little-to-no story, almost purely a setting and mechanics. They're my favorite type of game.
- bityard 12d ago
  You can keep coming up with flawed analogies all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that a good RPG video game is a LOT more than a story. Is is possible to enjoy the characters, gameplay, strategy, battle system, graphics, and music of a game while caring next to nothing at all about the story. I played a LOT of 16 and 32-bit RPGs in my day and found the stories and character dialogue in nearly all of them to be predictable to the point of cliche. There are rarely any unique plot elements to get invested in, rarely any characters who break out of their mold. If you've seen one Hero's Journey, you've pretty much seen them all. But obviously you can still build a damn fine movie or video game around it. (FWIW, I like coding but don't get very excited about algorithms or data structures. They are just tools to use on the way to making something useful in the real world.)

by monkpit 13d ago

noodletheworld 12d ago

Bluntly? Because it’s a meaningless opinion. You like coding, but not the algorithms. You like books but not the story. This isn't “I will play it my way”; its heres a BS reason why legitimate critique can be dismissed out of hand. “Oh, but for me its not about of the food tastes good” Ok. Sure. You do You. …but if someone says: that meal was rubbish and tasteless, is it so outrageous to call out “but I don't care about the taste” as incomprehensible nonsense to the majority of people? Am I being outrageous here? What does the the “rp” stand for in rpg? You tell me.

cgriswald 12d ago
There is more than one thing to enjoy about anything and yes, someone may enjoy aspects you aren’t even aware of even if they don’t enjoy the aspect you think of as the core aspect. You brought up the subject of food, but not everyone even agrees that taste is the most important element. For some it’s the social aspect of the meal. For some it’s the nutritional value. Some may only tolerate the taste of something but enjoy the texture or the warm feeling in their belly. People can also eat things they don’t enjoy but be glad they did for the experience of just trying that thing. It isn’t outrageous that you don’t understand it. It does imply that you’re blind to all the other aspects of games that bring people enjoyment. You personally would probably be better off not trying to defend this and instead trying to understand the views others have. You could just ask the poster what he does care about in games.
- noodletheworld 12d ago
  > It does imply that you’re blind to all the other aspects of games that bring people enjoyment. Like what? I’m not making a sweeping generalisation here about how people play games. We’re talking about chrono cross. For a story driven JRPG like CT / CC specifically, if you don’t care about the characters or story, there is no reason to achieve any goal in the game. I’m not so proud I can’t admit to being wrong; but in a JRPG there is no game without the character driven story. If you imagine replacing Kid and Serge with cardboard cutouts labeled A-san and B-san, what are you enjoying about the game?
  - cgriswald 12d ago
    I can’t speak for the poster and I haven’t played that game, but I’ve played other JRPGs. Here’s a list of some of the things I can enjoy in a game, JRPG or otherwise, that aren’t necessarily story or character related: technical details/neat hacks, novelty, atmosphere, gameplay/battle/magic/weaponsystems, exploration, finding secrets/special items, level design, enemy and boss design and fights, cinematography (framing, contrast, …), immersion, design elements, collecting things, trying to break the game, talking about the game with others, connection and comparison with other games and media, translation, acting, my mental reaction (turning my brain off/lighting it up) …
t-3 12d ago
I like games for the mechanics and gameplay. Cutscenes and dialogue just get in the way. Old-school ascii roguelikes are RPGs but most have little-to-no story, almost purely a setting and mechanics. They're my favorite type of game.
bityard 12d ago
You can keep coming up with flawed analogies all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that a good RPG video game is a LOT more than a story. Is is possible to enjoy the characters, gameplay, strategy, battle system, graphics, and music of a game while caring next to nothing at all about the story. I played a LOT of 16 and 32-bit RPGs in my day and found the stories and character dialogue in nearly all of them to be predictable to the point of cliche. There are rarely any unique plot elements to get invested in, rarely any characters who break out of their mold. If you've seen one Hero's Journey, you've pretty much seen them all. But obviously you can still build a damn fine movie or video game around it. (FWIW, I like coding but don't get very excited about algorithms or data structures. They are just tools to use on the way to making something useful in the real world.)