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So two filesystems that are essentially shunned from the Linux kernel and permanent second-class citizens, and one that was removed from Red Hat and has a quest

So two filesystems that are essentially shunned from the Linux kernel and permanent second-class citizens, and one that was removed from Red Hat and has a questionable history of reliability. Oh boy which do I choose? I'm saying ZFS on another OS.

petre 7d ago
xfs/lvm-raid10 or ext4/lvm-raid10, obviously.
- sippingabonedry 7d ago
  If I'm forced to use Linux, sure. I could drop bricks on and cord pull those all day and they would not lose data. Which is a small ask for a filesystem IMO.
- andriy_koval 6d ago
  would want to have compression..
  - simoncion 6d ago
    > would want to have compression.. I learned about VDO today. [0][1] I'd never heard of it before, but I'm using Gentoo Linux and both the dm-vdo kernel module and the 'vdo' software provided by [1] are distributed by Gentoo... so this isn't some weirdo Red Hat thing. It looks like you manage and used these just like any other thin-provisioned LVM volume [2], but -like I said- I've not used this before, and have only just skimmed the docs, so it's possible that I'm missing something important. [0] <https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html/deduplicating_and_compressing_logical_volumes_on_rhel/introduction-to-vdo-on-lvm_deduplicating-and-compressing-logical-volumes-on-rhel https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_...> [1] <https://github.com/dm-vdo/vdo https://github.com/dm-vdo/vdo> [2] <https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html/deduplicating_and_compressing_logical_volumes_on_rhel/creating-a-deduplicated-and-compressed-logical-volume_deduplicating-and-compressing-logical-volumes-on-rhel#creating-and-mounting-an-lvm-vdo-volume_creating-a-deduplicated-and-compressed-logical-volume https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_...>
    - andriy_koval 6d ago
      Yeah, I know that thing, but oddly they support only lz4 compression which is much weaker to zstd used everywhere else.
      - simoncion 5d ago
        I don't see that as odd. It looks like it was released at about the same time that zstd was getting added to filesystems, and a little bit prior to when IBM acquired Red Hat. It's quite possible that IBM decided that "little" things like enhancing LVM aren't worth the money.
        andriy_koval 5d ago
        Its odd to me because it looks trivial to add another compression algorithm implementation
em-bee 6d ago
no thanks to red hat. i switched to debian for servers. fedora fortunately still supports btrfs. zfs is shunned. can't really get around that copyright issue. bcachefs just hit a setback, which i am hopeful will eventually be resolved.
- p_l 6d ago
  The copyright issue is not really that big, except from some devs who decided to sure Ubuntu :V But there's a LOT of FUD about it.
  - em-bee 6d ago
    it is big enough that it prevents distributions to include zfs. and that in reality is the problem. i would not care much if all distributions decided to ignore the copyright issue like canonical does and i could therefore get reliable support for zfs. but alone the thought of having to boot a rescue system to fix my broken computer and then not having zfs support because no one built a rescue system with it included is making the risk to high.
    - p_l 6d ago
      Distributions aren't locked from distributing ZFS, the only group that actually is suing is few kernel developers w/ their lawyers who have non-standard understanding of copyright (including one that isn't norm for the linux kernel, including for filesystems).
      - em-bee 5d ago
        who is at fault doesn't really matter. the end result is that distributions aren't including it, and that kills it. unlike almost anything else which i can add to a system after booting it, filesystems need to be available from the start. until debian, fedora, suse, etc are convinced that there is no threat this just won't happen.
        5d ago

petre 7d ago

xfs/lvm-raid10 or ext4/lvm-raid10, obviously.

sippingabonedry 7d ago
If I'm forced to use Linux, sure. I could drop bricks on and cord pull those all day and they would not lose data. Which is a small ask for a filesystem IMO.
andriy_koval 6d ago
would want to have compression..
- simoncion 6d ago
  > would want to have compression.. I learned about VDO today. [0][1] I'd never heard of it before, but I'm using Gentoo Linux and both the dm-vdo kernel module and the 'vdo' software provided by [1] are distributed by Gentoo... so this isn't some weirdo Red Hat thing. It looks like you manage and used these just like any other thin-provisioned LVM volume [2], but -like I said- I've not used this before, and have only just skimmed the docs, so it's possible that I'm missing something important. [0] <https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html/deduplicating_and_compressing_logical_volumes_on_rhel/introduction-to-vdo-on-lvm_deduplicating-and-compressing-logical-volumes-on-rhel https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_...> [1] <https://github.com/dm-vdo/vdo https://github.com/dm-vdo/vdo> [2] <https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html/deduplicating_and_compressing_logical_volumes_on_rhel/creating-a-deduplicated-and-compressed-logical-volume_deduplicating-and-compressing-logical-volumes-on-rhel#creating-and-mounting-an-lvm-vdo-volume_creating-a-deduplicated-and-compressed-logical-volume https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_...>
  - andriy_koval 6d ago
    Yeah, I know that thing, but oddly they support only lz4 compression which is much weaker to zstd used everywhere else.
    - simoncion 5d ago
      I don't see that as odd. It looks like it was released at about the same time that zstd was getting added to filesystems, and a little bit prior to when IBM acquired Red Hat. It's quite possible that IBM decided that "little" things like enhancing LVM aren't worth the money.
      - andriy_koval 5d ago
        Its odd to me because it looks trivial to add another compression algorithm implementation

em-bee 6d ago

no thanks to red hat. i switched to debian for servers. fedora fortunately still supports btrfs. zfs is shunned. can't really get around that copyright issue. bcachefs just hit a setback, which i am hopeful will eventually be resolved.

p_l 6d ago
The copyright issue is not really that big, except from some devs who decided to sure Ubuntu :V But there's a LOT of FUD about it.
- em-bee 6d ago
  it is big enough that it prevents distributions to include zfs. and that in reality is the problem. i would not care much if all distributions decided to ignore the copyright issue like canonical does and i could therefore get reliable support for zfs. but alone the thought of having to boot a rescue system to fix my broken computer and then not having zfs support because no one built a rescue system with it included is making the risk to high.
  - p_l 6d ago
    Distributions aren't locked from distributing ZFS, the only group that actually is suing is few kernel developers w/ their lawyers who have non-standard understanding of copyright (including one that isn't norm for the linux kernel, including for filesystems).
    - em-bee 5d ago
      who is at fault doesn't really matter. the end result is that distributions aren't including it, and that kills it. unlike almost anything else which i can add to a system after booting it, filesystems need to be available from the start. until debian, fedora, suse, etc are convinced that there is no threat this just won't happen.
      - 5d ago