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> I think the military knows why it needs this stuff. You assume this deal was driven by military needs. And we all know what happens when one assumes... I wo

by toyg 7d ago

> I think the military knows why it needs this stuff. You assume this deal was driven by military needs. And we all know what happens when one assumes... I would be ready to bet that, considering how the current administration decapitated the military and installed yes-men at the top, this effort was not, in fact, driven by military needs.

ericmay 7d ago
You’re making your own assumptions while accusing me of being beholden to mine. One can simply think about it and understand the military and strategic importance of Greenland and that the US may over time change its defensive posture in the region depending on various goals or situations.
- toyg 6d ago
  Meh - the US could have simply opened other bases if they really wanted to, since Danish approval has never been denied. They had loads in the past. This agreement changes nothing in practice.
  - ericmay 6d ago
    Well it's still good to have it formalized in case someone tries to say well we never had an agreement
    - toyg 6d ago
      But there was an agreement. The fact that the Danish are celebrating because nothing has changed, should be a hint that the US got nothing more than they already had.
      - ericmay 5d ago
        But we did get more than we had. Now it's a formal, indefinite agreement and not even Greenlandic sovereignty would legally change that. I think it's unlikely but you can imagine a world in which this agreement doesn't occur and then Greenland for purposes of financial gain hosts, say, Chinese ports or dual-use infrastructure. Without an invasion or something we would probably lack a legal recourse, whereas now we can point to some piece of paper as justification (as all countries do). If nothing changed, then it was a good thing that we formalized nothing changing. It's ok to just admit that the US got concessions from Denmark here.
        toyg 5d ago
        I don't think you appreciate the huge diplomatic fallout that this "change nothing to change nothing" operation produced. It more than offsets any minor legalistic concession that might have been obtained. The US is now considered an unreliable partner by Europe not just on economic matters, but on military ones too. European countries are openly planning for a future where the US is not an ally, a situation that would be disastrous on both sides of the Atlantic. It made it completely unpalatable for Europeans to help the US in the very real Iran war, which is also ending up in the same way: a pointless exercise that destroyed decades of careful egemony-building efforts for no actual gain.

by toyg 7d ago

ericmay 7d ago

You’re making your own assumptions while accusing me of being beholden to mine. One can simply think about it and understand the military and strategic importance of Greenland and that the US may over time change its defensive posture in the region depending on various goals or situations.

toyg 6d ago
Meh - the US could have simply opened other bases if they really wanted to, since Danish approval has never been denied. They had loads in the past. This agreement changes nothing in practice.
- ericmay 6d ago
  Well it's still good to have it formalized in case someone tries to say well we never had an agreement
  - toyg 6d ago
    But there was an agreement. The fact that the Danish are celebrating because nothing has changed, should be a hint that the US got nothing more than they already had.
    - ericmay 5d ago
      But we did get more than we had. Now it's a formal, indefinite agreement and not even Greenlandic sovereignty would legally change that. I think it's unlikely but you can imagine a world in which this agreement doesn't occur and then Greenland for purposes of financial gain hosts, say, Chinese ports or dual-use infrastructure. Without an invasion or something we would probably lack a legal recourse, whereas now we can point to some piece of paper as justification (as all countries do). If nothing changed, then it was a good thing that we formalized nothing changing. It's ok to just admit that the US got concessions from Denmark here.
      - toyg 5d ago
        I don't think you appreciate the huge diplomatic fallout that this "change nothing to change nothing" operation produced. It more than offsets any minor legalistic concession that might have been obtained. The US is now considered an unreliable partner by Europe not just on economic matters, but on military ones too. European countries are openly planning for a future where the US is not an ally, a situation that would be disastrous on both sides of the Atlantic. It made it completely unpalatable for Europeans to help the US in the very real Iran war, which is also ending up in the same way: a pointless exercise that destroyed decades of careful egemony-building efforts for no actual gain.